Electrical Shock and Arc Flash with Terry Becker

Zack Hartle: 0:00

Hi, and welcome to Watt's the Word an electrical industry podcast. I'm your host, Zack Hartle, and I'm joined as always by Jason Cox. And we're here to just have relevant conversations with people from all over the electrical industry. Our goal is simple. It's to learn something new and bring information to everyone here listening to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today's episode is no exception. It's about a very important topic, electrical shock and arc flash. With Terry Becker from TW Becker, Electrical Safety consultants. We're going to chat about a lot of acronyms today. So take a look in the description or show notes to see a list of those acronyms. Thanks so much for joining us.

Jason Cox: 0:46

Welcome to the show, Terry.

Terry Becker: 0:48

Thanks , Jason. Glad to be here.

Jason Cox: 0:50

Terry, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this side of the electrical industry?

Terry Becker: 0:56

Yeah, I'm an electrical engineer by background and I started my career in oil and gas. And that's where I first found out about the arc flash and shock hazard at a at a conference I went to and, and there was a presentation on NFPA 70, e standard for electrical safety and workplaces back in 2005. So I was an electrical engineer doing sort of standard electrical engineering, for oil and gas and engineering consulting before 2005. And at the time, I was working for Encana Corporation, which everyone will know in Alberta. And that's when I found out about arc flash and shock. And that that was the change in my career. At that point. I somehow a switch turned on, forgive using the analogy. And I said, Geez, these two hazards arc flash and shock, we haven't done anything. I didn't even know what Arc Flash was in 2005. I knew what shock was. But as an electrical engineer, I'd really never focused any attention on it, when in reality, I should have been focusing attention on it as part of my my job for in Canada at the time. Right. So that set me off on a new journey and a new mission of my career. After 2005, and there's a lot more to that story, which, again, we can talk about to if need be in the podcast.

Jason Cox: 2:06

So jumping in there, right away, you mentioned the NFPA, can you kind of talk about the difference, or the similarities about the NFPA and the CSA here for our listeners in Canada, and I guess in America,

Terry Becker: 2:19

yeah. And again, like, you know, the NFPA 70, when I found out about it was this 2004 edition. And that was back in oh, five. And we didn't have CSAs at 462 at the time. So part of my my, my my job at Encana was to manage risks related to our use of electricity in our business and and then we had these two hazards. And so I did a bit of benchmarking with other oil and gas companies. And then I phoned CSA, and after about 10 people, I got the right, the right gentleman, and I said, you know, are you aware of this NFPA 70 standard for electrical safety and workplaces Believe it or not CSA knew about it in oh five, right? And they said, Well, yeah, we're actually aware of that, you know, you're not the only one that's been inquiring. And we're going to have this new C code part one rule that's going to be added to the 2006 code. And I said, I said what? It was strange, there was convergence on the topic. But the convergence was actually a problem because the new rule rule 2306, called for a new arc flash and shock warning label to be installed on electrical equipment. And we didn't even know what Arc Flash was. And we hadn't actually identified arc flash in the workplace or the shock hazard. Right. So that's, that's what set me off. So what happened is CSA said, Well, we signed an MOU with NFPA to harmonize standards for North America. And we're going to create CSAs at 462, workplace electrical safety standard. Do you want to be on that tech company as the first, you know, vice chair and a voting member? And I said, Well, at this time, but by this time, it can, I think sort of rolling that we needed to deal with these hazards. So it was sort of a natural that I said yes. So we did not have Z462, published in Canada, until January 2009. And at that time, we were probably fully harmonized with NFPA 70 II, but that's changed. So we're now in our fifth edition of Z462, published January 2021. I'd say we're giving you a number of 90%, harmonized with 70 E. But we've made some of our own improvements, right, because we have that ability to deviate, we do not have to stay harmonized with 70 E and we have not so then the latest edition does have some interesting changes that are not in NFP. 70.

Jason Cox: 4:34

Okay, so but wonderful that they both are very similar. You're not going to it's not apples and oranges. It's two types of apples and maybe the 70 II will borrow from the CSA in the future. We don't we don't know. Right?

Terry Becker: 4:48

Well, what will happen is we do try and submit our changes through their public comments process, right, and in turn, we track their public comments, and then bring those back to Z462. So right Now we're already into the 2024 edition, right and far as far as reviewing changes. So present 462, we had over 50 dockets. But unfortunately, most of those dockets came from tech committee members, not the public. Whereas in the US, they typically range from 300 to 500. Public comments, every region, the standards a lot more mature, maybe a lot more adopt, and a lot more awareness and industry. We're in Canada, I think we still lack awareness that the Z462, workplace electrical safety standard, is available and can be used. So we really haven't had a lot of public comments. And then we are going to attempt to stay harmonized, but sometimes they reject our public comments for changes that we like, and they don't accept them, then we retain those in CSAs Z462. And sort of vice versa, right. But we're, we're going to the 2024 edition, I think, make sure we try and take some of the good things that they have that we don't have, and continue to push to them. Some of the things that that we bring forward. The challenge is these tech minis, it's industry. It's not it's not 70. It's not NFPA, or CSA group. It's it's industry that structures, these tech companies and people vote right and, and there's different people and their different sort of understanding or drivers for what they want to see happen and the standards, right. So that's not necessarily a good thing, because sometimes some really good content doesn't get voted in.

Jason Cox: 6:26

Well, and yeah, it definitely can be self serving and move in a direction that might not be best for the, for the nature of the Safety Safety Act. If I was looking at starting a business, or I'm new to the electrical industry as a contractor, what do I need to know as like, obviously, the CSA has rules and legislation in place, what's the top thing that you think that new contractors should be aware of as they're entering into the business of being an electrical contractor?

Terry Becker: 7:03

So obviously, we're in Alberta, so I'll speak to Alberta, right. And it starts with, you know, occupational health and safety regulations. So if you're a one person contract, or a five or 1000, person contractor, you know, there's there's this overarching legal obligation in part two of Alberta's OHS regulations for hazard identification, and application of risk control methods. So that applies if I'm a one person contractor, like I said, five or 1000. So if you start your own company, you you've got to protect yourself. You're the CEO, the president, the safety officer, right and the worker, right now, obviously, you're just one person. But with respect to all workplace hazards, Alberta says that you have to manage those, identify them. And then if you can't eliminate exposure, implement risk control methods. The other challenge in Alberta, it's not a challenge. The other part of the regulations that is very strict is part 15. Control of House Energy, right, which is lockout tagout. And then in Alberta, we have party teen personal protective equipment, and arc flash shows up in Part 18. So right now, it's a legal requirement that if a qualified person is exposed arc flash, that the employer has to provide arc flash PPE. But that's the only portion in Alberta's regulations that's specific to arc flash, there's no specific legislation related to the electric shock hazard out of them part 15. Control has energy. It doesn't it'll it'll indicate electricity, but it doesn't uniquely identify the shock hazards. So small contractor, large contractor, the regulations are your legal obligation. And all workplace hazards, including shock, and arc flash have to be identified. And if we can't eliminate exposure, then apply risk control methods. And guess where we get those risk control methods from the CSA said 462, workplace electrical safety standard.

Jason Cox: 8:51

And so when we're looking at risk control, I would think the two things that are going to come come to be would be PPE, and then a procedure to complete a process.

Terry Becker: 9:07

So again, I'll use the CSA said 462, because it's the toolbox. And I tell everybody that 460 was a toolbox for electricians right specifically to our topic today. There's other task qualified workers too. So the toolbox provides prescriptive policy requirements, right and the first policy is to eliminate exposure. And if you can't establish an electrically Safe Work condition lockout tagout for electrical equipment, then you have to have justification for energized work. And then you have to complete a discrete work task shock risk assessment, and an arc flash risk assessment to identify additional protective measures, which is boundaries to apply and the arc flash and shock, PP tools and equipment. So there's the PPE aspect of that 462 The Arc Flash and shock risk assessments, but overarching this As you need to have a risk assessment procedure, so that we consider likelihood of occurrence. So what I find is that when there's training on Z462 just says, Oh, just do the shock risk assessment, and the arc flash risk assessment. So that's boundaries and PPE, but it neglects the topic of likely of occurrence. And a true risk assessment procedure considers potential severity of injury or damage to health and length of occurrence. And all of this is in Z462. So again, it's all about the work task. I talked about this that will tell you it's about the electrical equipment. No, no, no, no, let's not, it's about the work task first. And then you need to know the maximum nominal voltage that she'll perform the work task at on this electrical equipment. So work task, maximum nominal voltage, because that determines if you can receive a shock, or we can sustain an abnormal arcing fault, and have an arc flash result. And there's there's a sort of a first rule for arc flash. If there's no abnormal arcing fault, there's no arc flash. And then when I talk about this, there's normal arcing in energized electrical equipment, but by design, the arcs are extinguished, so they don't become arc flashes. Right. So So again, a long winded answer to your question, but for contractor, they're going to need arc flash and shot PP one person, five person 1000 person. And really when I've talked about this, the first tip that should be procured is rubber insulating gloves with leather protectors, then arc flash PPE, but you need both ultimately, you're going to need both right rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors the right class number, right class zero Max use 1000 volts AC for low voltage, and that should be standard kit. And apprentices should be should be exposed to this PPE they should be told about this PPE and and again, some of these tools and said 462 can be communicated to an apprentice in school, because that's that's where we need to start. And then and then out there, the Germans are out there. We need to get them what a call compliant art fashion shock training so that they get the right information. And they maybe don't get the wrong information. And that's another topic. All right.

Jason Cox: 12:13

Now I'm gonna jump way back here. Yeah. So what I need from you is, I know how industry works. And I know it's changed since since my the day I got my tickets, it's definitely gotten safer. But can you tell our listeners being the contractor to the green apprentice? What justified means you can only work on live equipment if the work is justified. Real simply explained to that apprentice right now who doesn't think that he's doing something wrong? Tell him that justified work on live circuits is

Terry Becker: 12:53

justified work is diagnostics and troubleshooting and isolation related work tasks. We want to eliminate energize repair alteration, right, we want to eliminate that and rule two, three or four in the Canadian electrical code is called disconnection. So we actually have this occupational health and safety rule in our safe installation standard, which my opinion is it should be deleted. But that's another topic. And it says no repair alteration energised. But you got to read the whole rule. That's the code. You got to read these rules, and you got to interpret them, right don't take them carte blanche necessarily. So that rule 2304 says disconnection, no repair alteration, comma unless it's infeasible. And then Appen dix B in the sequel, part one points to Z462. So now back to Z462. Justification for energized electrical work. It's lists it lists three elements of justification, right? Increased risk or hazard, and feasibility due to equipment design, or operational limitations, or the voltage is less than or equal to 30 volts AC, or less than or equal to 60 volts DC. So there's no arc flash and shock hazard. If we're equal to or less than 30 volts AC, or 60 volts DC, you can still get an arcing fault, but that's not an arc flash. So justification would be diagnostics and troubleshooting due to equipment design, how else do we make this equipment work? If we don't go and check for voltage, right? And then when we isolate it, it's energized electrical work to test for absence of voltage. That's one of the myths is that I just opened the circuit breaker. I don't need any of this PPE. That's false, right? Until you test for absence of voltage with an approved test instrument. It's energized work to test for absence. And that's all justified work. So diagnostics, power control circuits, right? Again, isolation work tasks, no isolation work tasks, what are those? Well, opening the circuit breaker, right or the disconnect switch, but that's operating electrical equipment. So there's a difference between diagnostics, repair, operating and isolation work tasks. So diagnostics completely approved, go ahead, right. And an apprentice is taught to use their test instruments to do that, right. There's other specialized testing that's also authorized. And we actually isolate the electrical equipment, put voltage back on it. But we need to do this diagnostics and testing to make sure the equipment will operate to its identified parameters, right, and then it's operating correctly. And then when it's not, we can get it operating again. So that's all justified, right? We want to eliminate the repair and alteration. And we also need to do those isolation work tasks, which are racking in or out low voltage power circuit breakers, racking and erode high voltage power circuit breakers, and for high voltage installing temporary protective grounds, right. So to summarize, it is not against the law to do energized electrical work. It isn't right, we want to use risk assessment as a tool to help us make decisions. And higher risk work performed energized is repair or alteration.

Zack Hartle: 16:04

So with those things you're mentioning there, and what you mentioned before, obviously, one of the first things you're going to want for a lot of that work is to have the rubber gloves with the leather protectors. So just to take a step back to those for a sec. If I want to get a pair of approved rubber gloves with leather protectors, how much do they cost? And where do I go to get them?

Terry Becker: 16:24

So a pair class zero. Now just one thing to all this arc flash and shock PPE is not CSA approved. Right. So there's the other thing you need to be aware. Well, I need CSA approved rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors No, because we don't and we will never have CSA standards for arc flash and shock PP. So the first thing is I need to know that I'm going to purchase an ASTM American Society of test materials standard approved rubber insulating gloves, and leather protector system. Right and then I go to a vendor, and I'm looking at probably, you know, all in because I need to I need the storage bag, the storage bag, I gotta protect the glove, I gotta transport it from the shop to the work location, I can put the bag down on the ground, the gloves don't get dirty. So the class is zero Max use 1000 Volts AC and 1500 volts DC because DC can shock us, right will cost you probably about 200 Maybe $225 per pair, right? Ultimately, you need two pairs, because you have to get these rubber insulating gloves, dialectically retested every six months. So if you have a pair of gloves in for tests, and you need to do energize work, you need a second set, and you have to stagger the test date. So just a little more than the cost is ASTM approval, both 220 25 bucks in the storage bag, Reverend slitting glove with the leather protector. Now that leather protector is a unique leather protector, you can't just get a leather glove from the local hardware store. Right? So 225 bucks, the dielectric retest costs about 20 bucks every six months from labs, there's there's lab in Calgary and a lab in Edmonton do the actual testing.

Zack Hartle: 18:05

And that's not so bad to obviously ensure they're maintained and still working correctly, right as going to ask about the cost as a little worried there. But 20 bucks every six months isn't so bad. So we've already addressed this a little bit, but we need to get the education coming in early in the apprenticeship. But aside from that formal training that you would receive in the apprenticeship system, is there anything else that people can look at for training if they want more information?

Terry Becker: 18:37

So, again, I've been trying to advocate that we need, you know, better training at the apprenticeship level. And unfortunately, the sequel part one's pretty thick. But you know, this top of arc flash and shock, my opinion should start in the first year all the way through the fourth every year, there's like a refresher on arc flash and shock hazards, then, then the apprentice gets their gentleman's ticket, they are out in industry. So at this point, the employer is obligated to provide training, a broad spectrum of occupational health and safety training. So unique again to electricians after they're trained in school and they get their gentleman's ticket. They need ongoing training, no zip 462. Again, where do we go to get some information on training? So is that 462 says that we should have arc flash and shock training every three years? Because guess what Z462 cycles every three years, just like the C code, part one, and we aligned the cycling. So we were in parallel with a sequel Pawan I'm glad it worked out that way. So every three years my opinion is an apprentice that might be out in industry working for an employer, they would attend independent arc flash and shock training, much like I offer right so I offer web based or instructor led arc flash and shock training based on CSAs at 462. Right, so that training should be at least every three years. Now the other issue with Z462, though, within the training requirements in clause 401 It says that we need to train on emergency release of a worker that's being shocked every year. Right. So then what I recommend is the employer and Z462 mandatory will acquires it shall have an electrical safety program. And that program is, again, a documented system that directs activities related to, you know, work on energized electrical equipment, and it addresses training. So within that program, it should say, hey, you know, once a year, we need to have a little bit of a meeting, right? Maybe we combine it with our annual safety meeting, or maybe we have monthly safety meetings, and every six months, we have ad hoc training, this is what's being missed in industry, not only, you know, ad hoc training about emergency release of a worker that's being shocked, but ad hoc training on those rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors. So formal training, eight hour course, low voltage, 16 hour course, low and high voltage, Electrical Safety Program role and orientation training. So once an employer develops policies, you need to train your workers on it. And that would be this electrical safety program, road orientation training, and then blend annual refresher or ad hoc training on some of the key concepts. And I said rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors, because I'm not because when I'm when I'm out doing external ethical safety audits, guess what I find the gloves maybe aren't even being worn, they're still in the bag, or the test frequency is out of date. Right? And for shock, that will save an electricians life. The current was always flowing through the hands, right. So we need training to be formalized in school apprentice every year, then again, the journal electrician under the employers in responsibility is provided arc flash and shock training every three years. But then integrate this ad hoc short training, you know on some of the key topics throughout the year to keep it current to keep it fresh. And to remind that journey, personal electrician, and apprentices that are out there doing their hours, that this PPE you need to identify it, you need to produce check and inspect it, and then where and then the risk to you is low risk that you'll be exposed to shock and or arc flash. Right. There's no zero risk. But I do quote with rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors, if they're stored properly. They're dialect retested every six months, you pre use air and visual check the rubber insulating glove and inspect the leather protector, you will not get current flow through your hands into your body ever again.

Jason Cox: 22:36

Every one of the things you mentioned there is doing audits and your observations and industry about what's being done correctly and incorrectly. Where in industry, are you seeing electrical safety processes and procedures done? Well?

Terry Becker: 22:55

That's a good question. And, you know, I classify, you know, the companies that I work for as institutional, commercial, and industrial. So remember, my journey started in oh, five for a large oil and gas company, right. And I'll make a blunt statement. The only gas industry is the most safest industry in this country. It is because trust me, I've now been exposed to other industries. And just general safety is not as intense as it is in the oil and gas industry. Alright, so industrial has been leading the way. And I'll be blunt, the oil and gas industry started this whole thing off. And I was one of the catalysts of that I was the catalyst, right. And then unfortunately, commercial and institutional lagged behind this and identifying these two hazards. And I find that they have weaker occupational health and safety management systems than what I was used to in the oil and gas industry. And so they're lagging behind. Some of them have funding problems, which I do recognize because they're taxpayer funded. So they, you know, safety shouldn't need a budget, but safety needs a budget. So when I'm out doing external electrical safety audits now, I finally did get back out there right last fall. And I did a large industrial, external electrical safety audit. And then I did a large what I'll call, you know, institutional which will say municipality, right? Wastewater water treatment, right. And so the industrial was, you know, the outcome of the audit was the industrial was ahead of the municipality, right. But the industrial end user still had issues when, because with safety, it's called Plan, Do Check Act. And it's a philosophy it's one of many philosophies in occupational health and safety. Now that philosophy is consistent with CSA said 45,001, which is an occupational health and safety management system standard that Canada adopted, which was ISO 45,001. So the audit tells us what's happening and industrials lead the way then I'd say, you know, institutional, which would be municipalities, large universities, and school boards. And then I'd say commercial, you know, manufacturing sites, small commercial, large commercial buildings with, you know, warehouses and then the like they lag at the bottom of the list on on who's done, you know what, with respect to arc flash and shock and who's done it well. And then who's auditing it? Right. And that's the challenge. If you don't audit safety, you don't know if it's working if those risk control methods are actually working. And there's another topic that that is relevant to this is electrical supervisors, there's a whole other topic and what they are unfortunately, troubled with today is doing a lot of administrative work and lacking getting into the field with the electricians. Right. So but industrials been leading the way. A great

Zack Hartle: 25:57

how would you say Canada fairs compared to the rest of the world? Is there any countries we should be trying to emulate a little bit more?

Terry Becker: 26:05

So you know, that these are some really good questions, because they're all relevant. And I've tracked all this. Right. So when I was doing my benchmarking back in oh, five, it was canon us. Right. And then it sort of expanded because I don't know, it seems that at that time in the early 2000s, you know, arc flash and shock started to become relevant internationally. Right. Now, the NFPA in the US has a my opinion, a broader reach internationally, right? US corporations take things with them, because the countries they go to do not have h&s regulations, and they don't have standards. So right now, NFPA 70 E is used either voluntarily, or potentially adopted by a country internationally, right. So Australia, New Zealand, I think Brazil, or Argentina adopted 70 E, and it's translated into Spanish, right? We translated Z462 into French. So South Africa, South Africa, uses NFPA 70 E. And then Asia would maybe 70. But that's that's all of the topic, the Middle East, where the US has a strong presence due to oil and gas. Right, what would be using 70 E. And then Europe has now moved, you know, as I would, I would suspect the EU has moved to developing their own documents Australia and New Zealand have as well. So earlier on when I was, you know, getting into this, and if you haven't recognized got a lot of passion, I want to share, I actually presented in Australia, on CSAs, Ed 462, and Canada adopting it to influence and provide information, right, so I went to Australia three times and presented, I presented in Canada, across Canada, at conferences and I present in the US. So Canada is we quickly went from nothing to you know, a significant change. And so Z462, has made a significant change in Canada, you know, in 10 years, went from really nothing and these rubber insulating gloves with leather protectors for German electricians not being known or worn at all, to, you know, yeah, an escalated, you know, basis of it, but we still got a long ways to go. So Canada's is in good shape, I'd say the US, you know, as farther along in their journey because NFPA 70 II first published in 1979. But it really didn't change to its current format until 2000 2004. So we have an international issue with our you know, with these hazards not being identified. So right now, there's literally hundreds of 1000s of shocks occurring right now globally, right, as far as arc flashes, not as many, because countries don't have regulations. They don't even have proper training for German electricians. So it's someone that's just trained. Right. And, and in general, the biggest problem internationally in some countries would be there's no internet regulations. So Canada is now at this topper top tier, I guess. We've aligned with with with us, we've aligned with Australia, New Zealand, obviously the Commonwealth link to Australia and New Zealand as well.

Zack Hartle: 29:10

And it sounds like I mean, maybe the issue here in North America, let's say isn't the having the standards and the documents in place, it's maybe bringing the awareness to everyone about how to follow them correctly. Get the training out there, like we've said, right.

Terry Becker: 29:25

So again, I mentioned, you know, institutional, commercial, industrial. And, you know, the last 10 years, the awareness of Z462 has just ramped up it has right and when I said earlier that, you know, commercial and institutional are lagging industrial. I sort of equated that to the fact that industrial, I think has more liability under OHS regulations. Not that the other industries don't, but there's a lot more workers working at a worksite potentially. So the liability of the employer increases when there's a total man hour increase, right. So, again, Canada is Is, is moving through this, but we still have challenges, because it's not practiced everywhere, and especially electrical contractors, electrical contractors, you know, they'll they'll tear, they run a thin business as far as profit margins. But if you're running a contracting business, you're still making money. But, you know, forgive me for saying it, I think there's a lack of contractors wanting to spend money on arc flash and shock. And that's the training because the training, yeah, it's, it's going to cost you a certain amount of money per electrician, right? And if it's good training, you're gonna get good value out of that. And I try to instill that when I do my training with the electricians, how do we feel apply this information. And that's the, that's the differentiation of my training. By the way, as I just don't say, here's what's in Z462. You know, I try and communicate the training through what I call an energized electrical job workflow. Right? So again, it's it's we got a long ways to go. We need improvements and training the industry. But that's, forgive me, it's next to impossible. Because anybody can do our flash and shock training in Canada, because there's no certification body certifying that training. And it's called buyer beware, right. And what I find is that the employers are not pre qualifying companies that provide our flash and shock training, and not pre qualifying the instructor that Forgive me for saying it that they're truly a CSA Z462 SME, such as I am. Right. So, again, we've got some work yet to do.

Zack Hartle: 31:29

What's the documentation process in Canada? If there is an arc flash? Or more importantly, if there is a shock that happens? Do they get reported? Is it legislated that they get reported? I know that's a big issue. We're having

Terry Becker: 31:42

a really good question. So under OHS regulations, whether it's provincially, territory or federally, and more provincially, there's more systems in place is a under you know, workers compensation acts, right, an injury in the workplace has to be formally reported to the government. And, you know, the workers should seek medical aid. So for shocks, electricians have been shocked, since we invented electricity. And they didn't report them. They accepted them. The American electricians handbook, actually, from 1942 to 1960, said, use your fingers and or stick a wire in your mouth, right. So we got this history, right. So electricians should have reported them first to their their employer. And then they should have filled out a WCB and went to emergency every shock, you should have went to emergency. Right and in been put on an EKG. So that's the first obligation emergency response, get the worker to emergency fill out a WCB. So you have insurance, right? Separately, the employer right now has another obligation under the electricity Safety Act or safety standards acts across Canada, you have to report the electrical incident to the jurisdiction having authority for the C code part one, because they want to know if the incident was due to a lack of code compliance or equipment failure. Right? So there's two legal obligations to report a shock and an arc flash. And if there's no injury, and we have an abnormal arc arcing fault, an arc flash, you would only report that arc flash with equipment damage to the jurisdiction having a 40 through the C code part one. And and that has to be reported by a master electrician in our province, or the provinces or a field safety representative in BC. And there's there's forms provided by a governmental affairs for for this province, or the TSP CNPC, just as an FYI. So that's a really good question, because I don't think that the shocks have been reported. Well, they haven't been reported at all, or if they have been reported, just the WCB requirement, but not the jurisdiction having authority for the Seedco part one.

Zack Hartle: 33:44

No. And I bring that awareness of the shock hazard and reporting it as the only way that we are going to get see improvements in that. I mean, just as a side note for all our listeners here, if you do want to hear more about shock hazard or the long term effects, which we call so CWLA Take a listen to episode three, where we have John Knoll on who's a huge advocate in the industry right now, for shock hazard in the trade.

Terry Becker: 34:10

So I just want to comment on John John approached me a year and a half ago because I talked about electric shock sequela. But no one came forward. No one No one never no electrician ever came forward. So I didn't I didn't talk about it a lot. Then John proach me because I support the electrical contract sociation, Alberta. I'm trying to support them. I'm trying to help their owners and get good information to their electricians good training and electrical safety programs. John approached me and said, Terry, you've talked about this. I said, Yeah, but no one's come forward. And I said, he says, Well, where can I get diagnosed? I said, Well, you got to go to the Sunnybrook you know, the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center in Ontario. It's the only place that I know of that has an electrical injury program, but you know, so he did and and he was diagnosed with sub quella, but he has sub CWLA, which has multiple long term effects. So then John owning it, because he's he's impacted. He's no longer in the trade. It debilitated him. So he owned it. And he owned it because he had one WCB report for what he would tell you. I've been shocked 100 times, but he only had one WCB. So that's the important thing about shocks, you need to report it so that if you do have long term sub CWLA, you're going to get insurance if you can no longer be in the trade. So this is new information. And it just hasn't been talked about because there's no electricians coming forward. Now, my opinion is, you know, percentage wise, if we did have some statistics, maybe less than 5% of electricians, maybe less than 1% may have some quella. And so CWLA, because the electrical current coming into our bodies, is different for you or me, male or female, right. And therefore, it may not have the same and, you know, cumulative effect and cause sequelae. John did gets a quella he's been diagnosed, and now he's owning it and sharing his story. And I've been working with him, we actually went to the IEEE Electrical Safety workshop, I took John with me, we went down to Jacksonville in person, we wrote a paper and we had a poster. And ironically, the keynote speaker was Dr. Lee and Dr. Jeschke, from the University of Chicago, you know, Saturday program. So that got some huge attention this year, at that flagship electrical safety conference. And John was amazing. And he told his story we had I, you know, we had 2030 people at our poster session, right, and it was really engaging. So short term effects of shock are immediate, you're going to feel pain, or forgive me be electrocuted, the long term effects are not well understood still. So be aware of it. This is new information that we need to communicate to journeyman electricians out there.

Jason Cox: 36:51

Terry, I have to admit that when we started this podcast, I never thought that I would learn as much as I am. And our episode with John Knoll was, it sounds really dramatic, but it was life changing to realize just what kind of impacts can happen to people by being shocked. So that that was a totally changed my perspective. And I've been in the trade now for close to 30 years. With our and you've brought it up here today, there's always a question about safety versus price, and you can't put a price on safety, but we do. So when we look at the workers in industry. What's the minimum PPE that we're looking at for these people to be doing their jobs on a daily basis.

Terry Becker: 37:42

So here's a general rule. If you're going to be doing energized electrical work tasks on to eight volt, three phase electrical equipment, or higher three phase electrical equipment, you're going to need shock PPE and arc flash PPE. So those minimum classes are all rubber insulating gloves with leather protectors. And then general rule you need 8.0 calorie per centimeter squared full body arc flash PPE which will be a coverall on our greater balaclava on our graded face shield, ear canal insert earplugs worn first before you put the balaclava on CSA approved clear eyewear. Because the arc rated fasceshield is not Z94 rated for trapnell right because they just didn't spend the money to get that certification and you need own rated footwear leather, right? And that would be the minimum shock and arc flash PPE for doing a voltage measurement at two eight volt three phase or 480 volt three phase or 600 or higher voltages and then you decide if you need more using the tools in CSA Z462

Zack Hartle: 38:52

And what about underneath all of that one thing I always remember from my days what my days but one thing I always remember is being told to only ever wear cotton underwear underneath my Carhartt pants or whatever it was, is that a real thing or a myth?

Terry Becker: 39:08

No So the problem with clothing one underneath are created clothing is that if it is meltable polyester pod and Kali blends, what happens is the PPE that you're wearing that's are created as flame resistant fabric first that won't ignite when it's exposed to arc flash incident energy. And there's this very important value of instant energy 1.2 calories per centimeter squared or higher will ignite flammable clothing. Alright, so cotton is flammable clothing, cotton Polly's flammable clothing, so what you need to wear underneath your artery to cover all is 100% natural fiber clothing, cotton wool or silk because the heat that comes through the outer layer, but the temperature that the of the of the into the energy of the plasma cloud in this instant energy that's released, right? It's cooled by the odor garment before it gets to your skin. But the temperature that could get to your skin is 80 degrees Celsius, and that'll melt polyester, right? So you need to wear hunterson natural fabric clothing under acquitted clothing, and it's okay to have some minimal elastics to hold the underwear up. So whenever I talk about this, we still have to be reasonable and practicable about some of these things. Because the underwear it needs to be hold, held that now male and female need to talk about it, right. And so if you have a female, dirty person, electrician, because we're getting more of them in the trade, which is I think, a good thing, by the way, but we have to have a frank conversation that they've got to wear cotton underwear as well, they can't be wearing, you know, like I'll say like, you know, polyester type, you know, female underwear, they gotta have cotton underwear. So male or female, same rules apply. Because if it's polyester or poly blends, that heat from the arc flash, the sun's energy goes through the outer layer, and the outer layer is doing its job, it doesn't Ignite, and it cools that plasma so that when it gets to your skin, right, the worst case burn injury you can receive. Now, here's another topic is the arc thermal performance value of that garment is such that you can still get the 50% probability of the onset of a secondary burn, but you don't want the undergarments to melt as well.

Zack Hartle: 41:25

And that was what I was always told was, it'll melt to your skin, which it will or have a problem, right. And the other one I always heard since we're on the topic is contact lenses in the event of an arc would melt to your eye Is that myth or fact?

Terry Becker: 41:39

So my opinion would be that's probably fact because what's happening is, it's not the heat, now there is heat coming through the shield, right? So when you got the arc rated facial, it's doing the same thing as the clothing, right, it's reducing the amount of heat that gets through the shield to get to your face. But we're still going to have potentially high degree Celsius heat there, right, and you've got UV light coming through. And that's what's going to be the big problem with your eyes. So you need to have prescription safety eyewear that you would wear and I wouldn't recommend wearing contact lenses. Right? We got the heat we got the UV light potential is those contact lenses, right? Forgive me might melt.

Jason Cox: 42:18

All right, so I'm just throwing this out there. I never even thought of this. But like, if you're wearing a bra, like a lot of times bras like women in the trades now, there's a whole lot of metal and, and support. Like that metal could be disastrous as well for the burn.

Terry Becker: 42:38

Okay, but remember, we've got to be reasonable and practical. So respectfully for females, their anatomy is different than a male and they need to be comfortable when when they're working. Right. So this comes up with two military, can I wear metal rimmed glasses, can I wear metal rimmed glasses? Or do I have to get you know, plastic ripped? Right, so there's two things here, there's the shock hazard, and then this thermal hazard related to arc flash. So metal rim glasses can be worn because your head should never go inside the restricted approach boundary for shock. It shouldn't be there. And that's called an inadvertent movement risk. 12 inches is restricted approach boundary for low voltage equipment. So why rimmed glasses are fine, but tell you said some, you know, what about the heat? Well, I again, I've never heard of any incidents related to glasses heating and causing a specific burn to the face or knowledge and remember the sample there isn't a lot of female electricians out there. But in our flashes are not happening at the frequency that some people may tell you they are so we'll have no statistics. So you might get some heat coming through. And then the wire you know the wire the wire aspect of the of the female breezier, I don't think it would heat up and become a substantial issue at all. So worker comfort, you know, whereas in previous years, minimal plat, you know, minimal elastics we're getting way overkill on a topic. The bottom line is I want to work with a clothing on an electrician to start out with, that's the first thing we need to do. And that's that minimum, eight calorie per centimeter squared, full body arc flash PPE 208 volt, three phase or higher, and I gotta mention it 125 volt DC, battery string output from a UPS or higher voltage for larger ups, right? Same thing. And if we use that 462, and the arc flash PPE category table method, that's what it would throw us into anyways. So simple rule, and I'm really applying that 462 indirectly. And just trying to say there's that simple rule on minimum arc flash and shock, PP, right for low voltage work, and then decide if you need an arc flash shoot. And if the voltage is higher, then you got to up the class to another class for a higher voltage of exposure.

Jason Cox: 44:52

But you've definitely demonstrated how you're using the CSAs at 462 as your toolbox I mean, It's, it's, you're always going back to it and just relating back to and I think that's something we all need to start really following that example.

Terry Becker: 45:11

Because I always say it's a toolbox, right? So if you're doing an electrician, well, if you're an apprentice, you get a tool list and you go get those mental tools. So general electrician needs, Z462. And the tools that are in it, to apply against, again, identifying for exposed are flashing chalk, doing actual formal risk assessments for those, and then getting those boundaries because the boundaries applied only to the primary worker. But the boundaries, keep unqualified, unprotected workers out that don't have the PPE on. And if they come in the boundaries, they distract the worker, which increases the likelihood of you making a mistake when you flinch back, because they surprise you when they come from behind you. Right. So use the tools and said 462. But the problem is, I don't think a lot of the training communicates it that way. I do. I said, here's a tool, and then apply it against a workflow. Jobs are given to journey person, electricians, planned or reactive. And at that point, do electrical hazard identification against work tasks that you'll have to perform to do the job. And then use these tools instead for six to against the workflow, right. And we need documentation in the field as well. So that 462 requires that before a qualified person does energize work, that they have a documented energized electrical job safety plan, right. So these are the other tools in Z462. And I extract them and say, here's a job safety planning forum. And then as far as what's going on in industry, if there is training, and there is some policies, I don't think that journeyperson electricians are being told by their employers, you know, fill this form out before you do energize work. And what they're doing is they're identifying if they're exposed, and they're telling themselves that I've got the right risk control methods to manage my personal risk.

Zack Hartle: 47:03

Now, Terry, it's been a few years since I have put on a calorie rated suit. I remember it being big, clunky heavy. Earplugs, safety glasses, balaclava. And then the big hard hat with the orange face shield, hot, sweaty, difficult to move in. How's things changed in that respect in the last couple years with the PPE for arc flash?

Terry Becker: 47:28

So again, I've been doing this independent Electrical Safety Consultant for 14 years. And you know, the reason electricians called Arc Flash sheets bomb suits 15 years ago, because they were big and bulky, right. So with people procuring this PPE the vendor start to invest money, and well, not all the vendors. So there's the other thing in Arc Flash PPE. Not all vendors are alike, just like anything, right. So there's leaders in Arc Flash PPE, they're the innovators, and then other people follow. So what we've seen is the fabric technology has improved to lighter ounce weight per square yard, and higher arc thermal performance value as a single layer garment. And then an arc flash shoot is a multi layered garment. It's called total system arc rating. So with that innovation and fabric, the manufacturers can layer later fabric and the arc flash shoots in our ultra lightweight, you would not believe it, I wish I could reach through the screen right and give you one of these suits. And then you could go wow from 10 years ago, so the arc flash shoots are lighter weight, the actual single layers are lighter weight with a better atpv. The other thing that happened with the arc rated facials or the lenses in Arc Flash suit hoods, they transition from dark brown, dark green light green to what's called true color gray now, so there's full visual light transmission, where before you could you put on those you could barely see what you're working on. Right, which was a problem because PPE should not increase the likelihood of you being exposed to the hazard we're trying to protect you from so we've seen improvements in the in the ounce weight of the fabric to an ATV performance. So lighter weight more comfortable. The shields now truecolor Greenland's top technology so you can see you can see the whole piece of electrical equipment with normal light. And so and it doesn't just color wires, because the green discolored wires. So now that's all gone. Right? The other thing that's happened is there's other aspects of this too, right that are relative to if things go wrong, right so one of the vendors now has an escape strap vest available that you would wear over your everyday wear with a 10 foot nonconductive strap that's weaved into the back like a harness and I could use that to remove a worker that's been exposed to shock and release them. Well if a worker has been exposed arc flash and they're unfortunately in front of equipment still I could remove them. And that escape strap is also now included in an arc flash suit jacket. So the arc flash PPE is more comfortable. It's the true color Greenlands technology wear aid escape strap. There's other innovations, there's what's called an extender rack. Right. So for racking power circuit breakers, it's actually a telescopic, caustic, so you can shrink it to easily transport it, then expand it out 17 to 20 feet, and you turn the hot stick. And in turn, it's got a coupling that turns and racks the power circuit breaker in or out with the worker now being potentially outside the arc flash boundary. Right? There's other things too, like for instance, you need to test before touch with your test instrument, right. So this has been around for a while, but not many people know it. There's one of the leaders, right and test instruments that's got a proving unit, right, it's a low voltage proving unit fingers safe, because it does give you a low energy AC output when an alternate gives a DC output. So there's improvements in in a test instruments or in this case, an instrument to prove out your test instrument that you got a positive before it tested for absence and got zero and then retest on a positive and it's portable. You don't have to look for a receptacle. I'm up on a lift, how do I I gotta go down, I gotta go up. So improving convenience, for the journey, personal nutrition on using these, you know, policies and boundaries and things we want them to do is a huge thing. One last thing, too. This has been around for a while, again, probe extenders, right. So again, one of the vendors has probe extenders, so your hands are out of the box. Right? They didn't put the guard on the end, though. So you still need rubber insulating gloves. But when your hands were in the box, the problem was Innova movement, and he couldn't see the work really well. Now with rubber insulating gloves and leather protectors on that gets worse because you got more of a bulky glove and can't see the work with the probe extenders, you hold the end with rubber insulating gloves, load protectors and probe in. Right. So there's been improvements and arc flash PPE, improvements on tools and equipment that are available. Yeah, like, again, there's lots of information that you need to stay current with. And that's the challenge of the employer. But the journey personal nutrition, I think is challenged. Because how do they find out about any of this? Well, you find out about this from someone like me that that lives this and passionately wants to share and make this work out there. That's the problem, we need to make it easy or easier for the journey person electrician to be successful. Right and the PDP improvements will now do that. But the employer has to budget and provide the new PPE to the worker and replace the old PPE. And that's a huge barrier.

Jason Cox: 52:31

Well said, Terry, if our listeners would like to learn more about TW Becker, Electrical Safety consulting, the services you provide, what's the best method for them to get a hold of you.

Terry Becker: 52:43

So my website, www.TWBESC.ca, I've got a great website, talks all about who I am and bit of information about my journey on there. And it tells you what I do, right. So it's really good. I've got a blog on there as well. So my blogs, and I've got publications, I write for the electrical line magazine, Kevin burrs magazine, and if you're not signed up with him, sign up with him, his magazines, great. There's not only me, but there's a lot of good C code update content there too. So my website is the best place to go. Sign up and get on board with the left align magazine for my articles. I've got a really good article coming out. Next edition on electrical hazard classification. That might be an entire other podcast, by the way. So my website, I'm also on LinkedIn. Right? So I encourage journeyperson electricians to get on LinkedIn. Right? I'll be honest with you. There's lots of jobs being offered on LinkedIn all the way from professionals down to trades, right? So it's, it's the business network. So I'm on LinkedIn and posting there. I'm posting articles there, but my website, the number one location to find out more about me, and you can email me at any time. If you've got quick questions, I'll answer them, right. So again, like I said, I'm providing electrical safety program development. That's my priority is to get documentation in place as more than other formal toolbox for junipers, electricians, I do external electrical safety audits. And I've got my brand of one day low voltage arc flash and shock training course. And a two day low voltage and high voltage arc flash and shock training course.

Zack Hartle: 54:20

Yeah, that's excellent. Terry, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show today to chat with us. As always, we learned a ton. And as we mentioned, we could have gone down many, many more rabbit holes and spent a few hours talking about many of these topics. So I'm sure we'll have to have you back on the show one day to dig a little bit deeper into some of them.

Terry Becker: 54:41

Zack, Jason, I really want to thank both of you for for contacting me and give me another venue to communicate. And I would be more than glad to come back in a future podcast or even a reoccurring podcast forgive me for putting the plug in for it. We need to keep this topic front and center for journeyperson electricians Right and if we we let it you know, we let it like back any of the gains will will see complacency and pull back. So thank you both for contacting me. I enjoyed the time answering questions with both you today. Get in touch with me anytime, anytime.

Jason Cox: 55:15

Awesome. Thanks a lot, Terry.

Terry Becker: 55:16

Thank you both.

Zack Hartle: 55:17

And to all our listeners out there. Thank you once again for coming to listen to what's the word and electrical industry podcast. Come back again next month where we'll explore some more into the electrical trade. You can find us anywhere you find your podcasts Apple, Spotify, Google or YouTube, or check out our website wattsthewordpodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening. Keep yourself safe out there and if he can someone else do it.