Do you have what it takes? The IDEAL National Championship

Jason Cox: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, an electrical industry Podcast. I'm Jason Cox, and along with my co host, Zack Hartle, we're having relevant conversations with people in the electrical industry. On this episode we are talking about ideal industries and their skills competitions. Ideal runs a series of competitions, eligible for apprentices and certified journey people throughout North America and I believe throughout the world. To talk about this today we're joined by previous competitor Paul had an IO Paul's with paddle upgrade experts. And we're joined by Graham brown, gray and brown is the Western Regional Manager for ideal industrial. So let's get to this episode and see if you have what it takes to compete at the ideal national championships.

Zack Hartle: 0:55

Starting off today, we're joined by Graham Brown, Brown Welcome to Watt's the Word podcast.

Grahame Brown: 1:01

Thanks very much, guys. I really appreciate you inviting me today. And I'm looking forward to it.

Zack Hartle: 1:08

Absolutely. So I mean, before we get into ideal and before we get into the national competition, maybe just tell us briefly how you got into the position you're at now and just a little bit of your background in the industry.

Grahame Brown: 1:22

Well, just a little bit of background. I, when I was growing up, back in the late 1800s, I had a neighbor there was an electrician, and really as a teenager from 1415. I started doing a lot of odd jobs with him as he was doing odd jobs around Edmonton. I grew up just outside Edmonton. So I did that for three or four years as as a teenager. And that's how I raised money to go to school. And then when I was finished, Nate, a good friend of mine owned his own contracting outfit. And he was looking for somebody to set up a, a bid system for him on the computer. And it was a temporary thing that lasted about six, seven years, and started with him. And then after that kind of closed down, I went to a distributor in Edmonton company named Arielle bruise and son, back when Bruzzone are the family still owned the company. So worked for them for about 10 years. And then I switched to the manufacturing sales side of things and took over as a sales manager with another really large manufacturer and worked for them for about 1314 years. And then since then, I've worked for a couple of different manufacturers over the years. And basically, I've run Western Canada over the over the last probably 20 to 25 years in this industry. So had a bit of experience. And

Jason Cox: 2:54

that sounds like a lot of experience to be honest with you definitely know what you're talking about.

Grahame Brown: 3:00

You're calling me old Jason, is that what you're doing?

Jason Cox: 3:03

I think I think you and I are from the same vintage gram, same vintage. So like a fine bottle of wine.

Grahame Brown: 3:11

Yeah, I mean, it's been great experience, because I never expected really to be involved in the electrical industry. That's not what I went to school for. But once you get in, and once you get working, and it's been a great industry is treated, you know, it's treated me very, very well.

Jason Cox: 3:30

That's the thing that I'm always curious about when people are in our industry, nine times out of 10 They've got into it through someone they knew whether it was in your case, like a neighbor, or more often a family member. There's not a lot of people that well, there's that rare few that decide from day one, I want to be an electrician so so it's always interesting to hear the story of how people get and stay in the industry. Turning to the ideal industry side here. Maybe tell us a little bit about what ideal has been doing over the last few years to keep up with changes in the industry.

Grahame Brown: 4:09

Well, really over the last three or four years, you know which COVID is taken probably three, three quarters of is we actually have a really robust marketing and a research and development team. Based out of the US we're still a family owned business. They're fifth generation family now. So they spend a lot of money on r&d. And we actually have a department run by a gentleman who's worked for several different business entities within the family. And he really had a great roadmap over the last three or four years and we've released probably knew more new products in the last three years than we would have over the last 10 and the roadmap still looks very robust for the remainder of this year and So the next couple of years so the gentleman who leads our r&d team right now is hold several patents for the family. And he does a tremendous job about creating a great road path forward.

Zack Hartle: 5:13

Not to put you on the spot too much. But can you give us an example of some of your recent releases of products that are maybe winners? I guess?

Grahame Brown: 5:21

Yeah. So one of our most recent releases would be what we call a dead eye series. And it's made for you know, it's a holesaw. Group. And also going to expand that same thing into the drilling and tapping and but really, what that is, is the ability to drill into harder metals, and stainless steel. several, several of our competitors and ourselves previous of, you know, we have something similar that does really well in mild steel, but nothing that really does very well on the heart metal end of things. So we've created a whole new lineup of cutting that will be called Dead Eye, and it's made for the heavier metal drilling and tapping and then hole saws too. So perfect.

Jason Cox: 6:12

I'm just looking at your website right now. And the Deadeye collection is definitely featured prominently on the website. And I mean, yeah, any any improvement in technology for that kind of tool is definitely appreciated by electricians for sure.

Grahame Brown: 6:30

Well, that's kind of where I think that ideal has been very strong over the years. Like I say, it's a family business. It's been around since the early 1900s, and eight, and they really have been quite adept at adding products, tweaking products, that sort of thing. And that that mattress still holds today that you continue to do that.

Unknown: 6:56

So into the ideal, and you're maybe, maybe just tell me exactly what it's called, but

Zack Hartle: 7:01

is it the ideal national championship? Is that what it's called?

Grahame Brown: 7:05

Yeah, exactly. It's National Championships started about six or seven years ago for us. And it started in the States first, again, being a US based company. And really, they given an opportunity to, they were looking for a way to, to approach the business a little bit differently than just through the normal sales channels. And looking really to, to talk to and in, be influenced by apprentices and journeyman electricians that were actually using the equipment that we we manufacture. And probably the most direct way to do that was to interact with, you know, the end user. So this championship allows us to put on competitions across Canada, US, Australia, and so on and have lots interact directly with the people using the equipment on a daily basis, having them use our stuff at the competition level. And then give us feedback on what they like what they don't like. And then it's really taken those comments are taken back. And And again, we have the ability to tweak, tweak things and make adjustments, hopefully for the better of the electricians using the product, right.

Zack Hartle: 8:28

Yeah, it's cool to take something like a competition and it hits so many of those things that you're trying to accomplish, or you get that instant feedback from competitors. You also get a little bit of I'm sure there's media involved in some marketing, going along with it. And just getting the name out there, right. So on that's something that is important for developing new products and bringing things out.

Grahame Brown: 8:50

Well, these competitions over the years, I mean, they're there they are on TV in the US, they're on ESPN, one of the ESPN channels, and the finals are on TV at that point in time. And it is it's a really big event right there. Because there's winners from the last one that Canada was involved because we weren't too involved in the last couple of duty COVID Of course, but the last one Canadians were involved there was competitors from China, Australia, the US and Canada. And, you know, again, it gives us the opportunity to meet with people from around the world that are using our equipment and our tools on a regular basis and, and having a fun and friendly competition to see who can who can do best sort of thing and, and the prize money for this. This event is live the files it's to me it's it's absolutely incredible. For a couple of years, a journeyman winner was, you know in around the $75,000 us for first place. This year's competition, a first or a journeyman prize is $60,000 us so Oh, there's some fabulous prize money that that you can win for, for winning the competition?

Jason Cox: 10:08

Well, as it like, I'm kind of going back to the tools and to the competition. How neat is it that you get to use a tool, give your feedback to on the tool to the company, and the actual patent owner of the tool is going to actually see your, your impact your review. And I mean, you might indirectly be responsible for a subtle change in improving a tool. That's pretty cool.

Grahame Brown: 10:35

Well, really, we leave that you know exactly what you're saying, we leave that up to the the electricians, because everybody has a little bit different way of doing things. And, and, you know, when you talk to some people that you know, whether they've been on the tools for 40 years, or where they had been on the tools for months, something that they suggest it sometimes it's that keep it simple, stupid thing where you just go, well, that's so brilliant, it's simple, why don't we incorporate that right? And, and then, because ideal has the ability to control everything internal, is we can make those changes and redesign certain things or tweak something and then release it to the former, excuse me to the marketplace, which really, large, large public companies just don't have that ability to maneuver as quickly within the space today. So ideally, is unique in that area where we're able to take that feedback. The r&d department can take a look at it and see if it, you know, can be done on a on a bigger scale. And if it is, they still have that ability to tweak and release it to the market and a fairly quick period of time.

Jason Cox: 11:45

Yeah, and having people with different levels of experience is always a good thing. You got dinosaurs like me, that would take a tool and go on and on. It's always been like this. Whereas someone that's new new to the industry would say, well, wouldn't it be just easy if we could do this? And and people like me that have these habits of years and years and years? We go? Actually, that's a really good idea. So yeah, I think it's an incredible platform. For so many reasons. Yeah.

Grahame Brown: 12:12

Yeah. Well, I look to we've had two recent tools. Over the last three months, one's kind of a forge plier. So it's a combination of a linesman and a pair of strippers. And really, it combines two tools into one, which is not always great, but you know, when you talk to people that are working on lifts, or are trucking and a bunch of tools to a site, and then they put two or three that they you know, essentials into their their pocket to go do some work? Well, this helps alleviate some of that, that problem right with having to carry too many tools, and it does a really good job on both ends, whether it's stripping or using it as linesman pliers. So it's quite, it's quite unique. And it's it comes from feedback right from the market.

Jason Cox: 13:01

versity versatility is something that every electrician definitely values when you're up on that ladder, or up on that lift, and you've, you've lost one tool, so you're defaulting to a second or a third tool. So if you had a tool that was very versatile, I think it would be appreciated. And then myself, I kind of when I was still in industry, or still pulling wire, etc, I was on the service side of the industry. So so often I would be dealing with customers carrying a lot of distance through the day, monitoring jobs, etc. And I'd always want to have like two or three tools in my pocket. So that when I was dealing with my staff, and then dealing with a client, it would be a quick 123 kinds of things. So So once again, there's a there's definitely a need for tools like that.

Grahame Brown: 13:50

I think combining a couple of essentials into one tool, you know, really does make sense, especially nowadays, right? Where we're time and time really is money.

Jason Cox: 14:01

Yeah, it seems to be a theme in many of the episodes we're talking about now. It's it's that time factor and how can we become more efficient? And with the skills competition that you guys are doing? Time is definitely featured in those ideal competitions?

Grahame Brown: 14:18

Yeah, exactly. Time becomes extremely important. And for us, it's just a way of gauging, you know, who we're going to send on to the, to the national or not the national sorry, but it helps us determine who the Canadian winners are, so that we send them to the to the US for the global competition. So quality of work is still extremely important. But time gives us that basis to allow for elimination and ascending on to the next level. So you're

Zack Hartle: 14:49

touching on a little bit but so just maybe speaking to the structure of the competition, there would be battle of schools then a national Little Canadian championship and then that would progress to the global or am I missing a step in there somewhere,

Grahame Brown: 15:05

there is a little step in there because we, we use these events to get out to, you know, our distributors, and our distributor partners then bring in the customers to, to their facility. So it helps them again, show some of the newer ideal equipment and tools. And then we also do contractor only events where I am actually in Edmonton next week to work with the agent who covers Alberta, and directly at the contractors facility, and they're going to have 30 to 40 electricians go through the competition. So the way it really works is there's local events throughout Canada. We did some in Yellowknife this week. We've had some on the island this week. We've had a couple in Alberta this week, and all the way out to the east coast. So those events are more local. And those times they're all combined. We have a leadership board on our website that names the leaders. And then we do as you said, Zack, we have a battle schools in early spring, typically. And then we have a battle of schools in the fall, which is more focused towards the apprentice, because the way the competition works is there is a there's a winner in the West for both journeyman and for apprentice the fastest times by mid September. I think the cutoff is around September 15. Just after battle schools actually. So that the top time for a journeyman and the top time for an apprentice then would be the Western representative for Canada, and then they would go compete in the US this year, it's back in Florida last few years last two or three years has been in Nashville. So the winner gets to go down there. And then there's a winner for Ontario. And then there's a winner for Quebec in the Maritimes both again, in the journeyman and the apprentice side of things.

Jason Cox: 17:08

In this competition, the National Championships, like you said, it's in Tampa. And it's going to be November 4 to sixth of this year. So while this is going to be a busy, busy time for you for the next few months,

Grahame Brown: 17:20

yeah, you know what has been great, because we haven't had to have or we haven't been able to have one account letter for the last two years. And, you know, for myself, I spent a tremendous amount of time, while actually on a plane flying to different different areas of western Canada. And this gives me it's words given me already a great opportunity to get back and meet with distributors that have been seen for a couple of years. And contractors that you know, you basically lost touch with over the last two or three. So for instance I just did two weeks ago, I did a show in Lethbridge. And then the next day in Medicine Hat and then the day after that I was in Swift Current so really had a chance to go, you know, across southern Alberta and Saskatchewan, and spent a lot of money on gas, but also had a great opportunity to meet a ton of distributors and their people and their sales reps and then end users to everyone. So that to me, it was a great way to once you know, kind of the gloves came off, so to speak with COVID is being able to get right back out in the field, and just talk with people again. And that, that people that I believe have really, really missed that personal interaction.

Jason Cox: 18:34

You know, we that that's something that that comes up, we've been doing our podcast now this is I think we're close to our one year anniversary. And, and of course naturally COVID has been such a big part of everyone's lives that and we featured it on previous episodes. So So yeah, I think just for people to get back out there again and actually talk to you in person and see the tools and try things out what I mean, that's that's the kind of stuff that we need.

Grahame Brown: 19:03

Yeah, and it really is a touchy feely industry, right? I mean, these, these electricians are working with the equipment every day, and it really does have to feel right. And, you know, size of hand the, the cushioning on the on the pliers, everything takes, you know, that sense? It really interacts with the customer with the end user and the installer and unless they're able to try it out, feel it get a sense for how it works for them. You know, you're not really you're not really helping them right. And really at the end of the day, our job as a manufacturer is to make their job easier. And with less fatigue because they're working a lot of time long hours, especially in Western Canada where, you know, a lot of times in winter weather does obviously become a factor. The days are shorter so they're not working as long but certain right now where you're getting 12 and 14 hours of daylight, how that that tool feels in your hand and, and the the results on your body at the end of the day, right? If the if it doesn't work for you properly, you're you're gonna have all sorts of hand fatigue or arm fatigue. And that's just not good, right in the long term that's not healthy for anybody. So you need that immediate touch, that immediate feedback to help develop equipment that works for everybody.

Zack Hartle: 20:32

Yeah, it's such a cool way to get that feedback, like you say, and then also kind of give back to the community with prizes and opportunities. And the one thing that is really cool about this competition, I think, to me, is just how accessible it is, right? You're you just listed off, you know, 15 places you've been in the last couple months. And so there's an opportunity for in every city everywhere for apprentice or journeyman to get involved and compete. So I am assuming all that information can be found on the website, if anyone's interested in going and trying their hand at getting on the leaderboard.

Grahame Brown: 21:04

Yeah, exactly Zack on on our website, you can go to the events section, and you can type in your postal code. And it'll give you the closest event to you that particular day. It'll also give you a kind of a, you know, a generic, look at when I did it yesterday, for instance, there was nothing I don't I don't think going on in Calgary yesterday. But we did have one in Yellowknife. And there was one on the island. And then it does show some of the different events in the US too. So so really, and certainly where we have some real population density, you know, for instance, in the GTA area, we have electricians and contractors that that actively go show to show the show to try to get the best time. Because you can it's not just one and done sort of thing. Okay, you can, you can go to you know, so using Calgary as an example, you could go to a distributor and in the north end of Calgary on a on a Tuesday compete, do fairly well. But then on Wednesday, if it's on a different area of Calgary or a different distributor, you can go in and participate in that event. And you can do it as many times as you can fit in between now and the cut off in September to get the lowest time. And really that's, you know, some of the excitement we've seen in previous years was we have exactly that. And you mentioned, Paul, that you've interviewed for your podcast. Also, I know Paul, when he was the representative and went down to I believe he went to Disney World was where he competed. But he probably did five or six different events throughout Calgary to get to the time he needed to get there. So it's not just one and done. Like I say you can do different events within your within your province. So if you're a tradesman registered within Alberta, you can compete in any of the Alberta ones. Very cool.

Jason Cox: 23:01

Graham, thanks so much for being on the show today. Tons of information. I'm sure we could talk about tools and competitions and industry for hours. So we really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on the show today.

Grahame Brown: 23:13

Thanks again, guys. I appreciate you reaching out to us. And it was great to meet you both. And thanks again for letting ideas speak a little bit about her competition, a little bit about our equipment and real happy to be here. Thanks again,

Zack Hartle: 23:26

for sure. Up next on the show. We're just gonna sit down with Paul had Nanea. He's a previous national competition competitor who competed down in Florida representing Canada. So we'll get into that now. With us now we have Paul Hanna nya. He is a previous ideal national competition competitor. And he's here to tell us a story about that. Paul, welcome. If you could take a couple of minutes maybe before we get into the ideal competition, just tell us a little bit about your electrical career.

Paul Hannania: 24:00

Yeah, that's certainly thanks for having me. So yeah, I started when I was 17. I started my apprenticeship with my father in England. So I did 10 years worth of work over there. Construction light, light commercial. I came to Canada in 2008. reset my certificate and got qualified over here. And then I was doing some commercial work over here in Calgary. And then in 2013, I set up my own company, panel, upgrade experts, we specialize in electrical panel upgrades so that that's kind of what I've been working on since since 2013.

Jason Cox: 24:40

How did you get involved with ideal skills championships?

Paul Hannania: 24:46

Yeah, so the the company where I buy my materials, they let me know that there was a competition coming up, which was the qualifiers. So that's 2018 so did Few of them got really interested in enjoyed it. And then was lucky enough to win it, which was which was a, which was great, obviously. And then went down to Florida in the 2018. National Championship. And yeah, really got hooked on at that point. So so the next year, I was obviously super interested to qualify and put a lot more time into practicing for it, practicing for the qualifier and then managed to get down about 2019. The second year, so yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Zack Hartle: 25:33

Yeah, very cool. So I guess more than national competition are the qualifiers here? What does that competition look like? I actually haven't actually seen one. So you walk into a room what's in front of you? What's the goal of the competition?

Paul Hannania: 25:45

Yeah, certainly set a qualifier. It's basically as a small scale electrical installation, it's, it's a board, a two foot by two foot board, there's a couple of boxes mounted on it, you've got to do a little bit of wiring wires which Wye are like a test it so pretty simple. The first year, I remember there was a coax and everyone would get tripped up on the coax, could you try to go as fast as you are as fast as you can collect? It can be a finicky thing to stress if you don't quite strip it, right. Or your stripping is grim. Right? So yeah, the the qualifiers were a lot of fun, because they would generally be like the open house to the, to the supplier. So it's, so it's that kind of a little bit of a festival atmosphere. It's got burgers, and they've got, they've got games and stuff going on at this part of it. So the qualifiers are really fun, like no pressure there with people you know, and you kind of get to know the guys running it. So yeah, the qualifiers a real good time for the summer as well. So

Zack Hartle: 26:50

see, you're looking at this board, two feet by two feet in front of you a couple switches, couple lights, what is the like, how much time are you talking for? Like, what were your times like on that? Ah,

Paul Hannania: 27:02

I think the time I qualified with on the first year was like a minute for what you it takes time of practicing and going to an event and having a goal, we've got an event for them to go. And you start off with a two three minute time. And then you kind of shave that down a little bit and you shave that down a little bit. So yeah, I think the guys I think the fastest guys in the whole thing were they were in the low 50s. Which was incredible, because I'm doing a one minute for I don't know how you can shave 10 seconds off that, like, So what they're doing some fast guys out there.

Jason Cox: 27:42

Truly a Speed Competition, then obviously, whatever your your wiring, the task has to be functional, but it's a Speed Competition.

Paul Hannania: 27:50

Definitely, definitely the qualifier. Once you get into the championship itself, there's a bit more quality involved. But the qualifier I think it's the parameter, there's the parameters you gotta meet. But then everything else is all it's all speed.

Jason Cox: 28:08

And then so talk to us a little bit about the national championships, maybe where it took place, and just some of the differences from the regional competition.

Paul Hannania: 28:17

Yeah, so the the couple of years I went, it was Orlando, Florida. And the differences. It we're getting into that real electrical installs now. So there was conduit involved, there was getting wire switches and lights and stuff like that. But on a bigger scale, the board instead of being a two foot by two foot board was more like a 10 foot by 10 foot wall. And there's an electrical panel, and there's, there's Where's painted, where you've got to land your boxes. So you kinda got to be fairly accurate to land on the boxes, sets, etc. So you've got to be able to do locks off sets and three points, titles, etc. And then wiring through the boxes to the lights. And yeah, so a little bit more what you would expect to do on a on a commercial job rather than the board being just like a practice.

Zack Hartle: 29:12

And before that national competition, or you presented the project beforehand, so you can practice set it up, get some training, or you show up and it's a complete surprise what it is.

Paul Hannania: 29:21

Yeah, completely. So what they did is they split you into two groups. So one group will go into the meeting room and I like that explain it. So that's it. That's that's first thing in the morning, seven o'clock in the morning, you start the explain, they give you a video and they give you a sheet of a rundown. And then you go out and you do it. So there's that nerves that you don't know what's going to come up. And you might have been practicing conduit and you just hoping to do some condoms on there or there's hoping it's something that you're good at. And then the second group, they would go and sit in another meeting room and then wait for the first group to do the competition. And then they take it all down though obviously the mark everything that just yet, and then they strip it down. So yeah, I mean, if you're in the first group, it's ideal because then you, you, you actually get to watch the second group, the first group don't get the second group. So I don't get to watch the first group, because it gives them an idea of what's going on. So yeah, that's the that's really the biggest thing. You don't know what you're going into. Yeah, that's,

Zack Hartle: 30:23

that's an interesting perspective. For sure. Yeah. Like you say, you don't know what the practice you don't know what to get into. I mean, caught exact splicing seems like a pretty smart thing to practice. But you never know. Right? That's exactly. Yeah.

Jason Cox: 30:36

Just a question here. So I'm watching this on YouTube. And I believe it was the 2019 International. Well, the competition was national and international, I believe. So you're on ESPN? Yeah. How much was that the TV crew and their production, impacting the competition.

Paul Hannania: 30:59

From my point of view, it didn't really bother me. Once that I kind of felt the pressure was off once we'd gone through a couple of the novel stages the competition, and I already got knocked out. There's before on the North American, though, ended up getting into the, into the international because I was the fastest Canadian. And then, and I was kind of I was kind of relaxed. So it was it was more fun. That was the most fun. I've had competing, seeing that the pressure was off. Just gonna go that do my best. And yeah, it was great. I got an ISBN which was fun.

Jason Cox: 31:43

Yeah, well, it looked like some of the competitors. I watched a few of the videos. And when it was over, it was like, it's almost like a whole bunch of like, you built a bunch of new relationships there, too. There's a lot of people were happy with watching other people succeed.

Paul Hannania: 31:59

Totally. The camaraderie was great. And especially with the Canadians, because we, we kind of went on, we were all new on the 2018. So we everyone kind of gets to know each other a little bit more, because there's so many people there who were that previous year, and they've already got their relationships. So they're the Canadians, we've definitely formed a bit of a bond between our group and then the second year, a lot of same guys went back. So it was great to see everyone again. But yeah, the camaraderie on is is fantastic. So more than I was expecting, really, I mean, it's a competition. You're trying to beat these guys. But you're also become really friendly with them. So

Zack Hartle: 32:40

it's company, competitors, where they're from Canada.

Paul Hannania: 32:45

The first year, that which we look in 2018. That was two electricians and two apprentices. So it was split east to west.

Zack Hartle: 32:54

Okay, so, journeyman two apprentices.

Paul Hannania: 32:56

Exactly, yeah. And then there was I think, one team, and I think they were from Ontario. On the 2019, they opened it up a little bit more. So was maybe eight electricians and a apprentices. Yeah, it was nice. It was nice. A few more.

Jason Cox: 33:16

So this is ideal tools, national and international competitions. I just I have to ask here, Paul. Is there an ideal tool that is like one of your favorites? Or do you have a favorite ideal tool, the best

Paul Hannania: 33:33

tool of use from ideal all the all the coax stripper and crimper. So the coax stripper that you would use in whether we used in a qualifier? 2018 I ended up buying it under under crimper. Because I liked him so much. So it was it made a sale out of it. But so yeah, great, great tool.

Jason Cox: 33:56

There's lots of electricians I know that always struggle with coax. It's funny. You mentioned that earlier. And then the takeaway for you is actually that's the tool that you bought so interesting. Yeah.

Zack Hartle: 34:10

What are the other takeaways you have from the competition? What did you learn while you were competing, that maybe now you use at work and your your company?

Paul Hannania: 34:19

The systematic approach is how you shave that time down. You just you do your wire and then everything strip, you strip every single box, and then you twist them all you know what I mean? So you can't be going back and forth. I think the premise was talking to the other guys, when you get there as like, you only want to be touching the tool once. You can't be you can't be taken alignments. Twist in, put it down, pick it up, put it down. It's your when you're done with that tool is gone.

Zack Hartle: 34:49

You get into that too, and commercial and residential, you know, you're always trying to teach your apprentice you know, you don't want to go up a ladder down a ladder up or down a ladder. Ladder, right? But it's so much more fine to And, and on us like a smaller scale when you're just talking about a two foot by two foot board right?

Paul Hannania: 35:05

Completely. And we, we kind of do this with a panels when when the guys that new guys don't show up, it's I kind of do one slide and next slide. But otherwise go in one after another, and then you strip them all and then you straighten them all. It's, it's step by step, and you do the whole thing, then you terminate all your grounds, and then your terminal your neutrals. So it's definitely a, it's a process. And I like that's, that's kind of why I specialize in panels. I like the fact that it's a process that we can refine, and then you can get pretty quick at it. So and it's repeatable. And then another guy can get a glass door, and I can teach you that process. And then he can do the panels exactly like I do them. Because I take them we take a lot of pride in how it looks as well as how it functions.

Jason Cox: 35:56

Okay, so getting back to our, our ideal competition here. Do you have any advice to apprentices or journey persons, if they'd like to compete in this competition in the future? Yeah, definitely.

Paul Hannania: 36:09

I mean, you've got to put some time in on the qualifiers, if you want to get there with it. So that's, that's step one. And then the second step, ah, I mean, we're lucky that the practice is all work, we get, we get to practice as we're doing it. So I find where the mistakes are maybe made on the last year when I tried to get too fast. And my quality suffered. So, and I didn't, they didn't get me as far as I wanted to, as I thought it might. So I feel you've got to be fast, and you've got to be consistent, and he's got to be quality. So realistically to, to ensure you're going to progress. You got to be able to do everything is not just a Speed Competition anymore. And it's not just a quality competition. It's you've got to be able to do everything. So make sure you can bank on to it, because kind of has been very prevalent in the competitions. I mean, wiring, we should all get a wire, there shouldn't be too much doubt on being able to wire basic circuit, but conduit is, I think the one that most people get tripped upon, if they can't bend.

Jason Cox: 37:25

Right. Alright. Anything else? Zack? No,

Zack Hartle: 37:28

I think that is everything. Paul, anything else you want to add? Or?

Paul Hannania: 37:34

I think I'm not really I mean, I'm, I'm happy that ideal have opened it up to the Canadian competitors again this year. So just waiting for some of them events in Calgary be organized. So I'm looking forward to that. And hopefully make it hopefully make it for the 2020s too.

Zack Hartle: 37:51

Yeah, I know. COVID has thrown a little bit of a wrench in their system. But yeah, you do plan to attempt here to compete again.

Paul Hannania: 37:59

I'd give it a go to get you qualified to go see what happens. Nice. Awesome.

Zack Hartle: 38:04

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciated having you on the show and a little bit of insight into the competition.

Paul Hannania: 38:11

Thank you. It's been great being here. Thank you.

Zack Hartle: 38:14

And with all that, make sure you check out the ideal industries website to find a national championship qualifying event near you. This episode, of course, coming out middle of September now. And we have lots of events coming up in Alberta, Calgary and all over Canada, including battle of the schools where apprentices will have the opportunity to compete at their technical institute. So check out the website. We'll link it down below in the description as well. As always, thank you so much for listening to Watt's the Word podcast. Jason and I are thrilled to have you here. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Google, anchor anywhere else to get the latest episodes or you can check us out on YouTube. Stay in touch with us on all our social media which you will link down below as well. Thank you so much. Keep yourself safe out there and if you can someone else to