Zack Hartle: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to a special episode of Watt's the Word I'm Zack Hartle. I'm joined, as always by Jason Cox. This week, October 6 2022, is the first ever electrical injury day of recognition. It's where the Canadian electrical industry is coming together to try and raise awareness about the long term consequences of electric shock exposure, a day where we should all take a moment and some time to think about the effects of our actions in the workplace. Jason and I are here today to talk about what we've learned in the last year and a bit doing this podcast about electrical injury, and how our maybe our thoughts and perspectives have changed on that over the last year. So, Jason, welcome.

Jason Cox: 0:45

Well, thanks, Zack, I think you're you're correct in the way that you both you. And I have surprisingly learned a lot over the last year with the podcast, I say surprising, because we are both veterans in the electrical industry. And, and it is a positive thing that we continue to learn. And that's something that we hope to do with the podcast. It's worth noting that electrical injuries take place in the construction industry, not just electricians, but anyone involved in electrical and construction industry, but also the general public, right? Everyone works in a house or lives in a house that has electricity. And there are going to be hazards that people deal with. So it's important that people understand that the injuries from electrical shock are something that they need to pay attention to.

Zack Hartle: 1:38

Absolutely, and night, as we know, from Episode Three talking with John Knoll, about sick CWLA. And these injury right there is you need an expert opinion, in order to diagnose electrical injury long term, it can take one to five years to come into effect. So it's just and all of the symptoms that can be caused by even a single shock, you can get injured, huge potential long term consequences, right? Psychological, neurological, physical impairment. years down the road, I mean, it's a huge thing that we all need to be considering thinking about, and especially reporting, we were just kind of talking before we got on the show hear about how much more common reporting is getting and how important to continue reporting, electric shock and injury is,

Jason Cox: 2:35

well, that's a big part of it there too, right, the attitudes in the industry have changed quite a bit over the last, I'm gonna say 20 years where in the past, you would take a shock or get a poke, and it would just be kind of a rite of passage. However now, right, the CSA Z462 mandates that you report, electrical shock. And this is something that we can see on the Municipal Affairs provincial website in Canada. So we can see a list of the reported incidents, it doesn't give a whole lot of information on the specific injuries. It does allude to some of them. But once again, it's the reporting of the injuries. And I took a look at some of the statistics for just the last three years. And notice trends mostly due to COVID. And, and how that had an effect on all of society. But it would be interesting to go back and look at the statistics over over years or decades, because I'm quite certain that the reporting aspect is something that now is being encouraged. Whereas in the past, it was just something that it wasn't just talked about, it was a pat slap on the back and maybe a trip to the bar for a story. But definitely more information is important. And one of the things we have to do is we have to start reporting these incidents.

Zack Hartle: 3:58

Yeah, couldn't agree more. I think that's what makes this day of recognition so important. I mean, you can see some groups coming together here. There's the Electrical Contractors Association of Alberta, Canadian Electrical Contractors Association, the National Electrical Trade Council. There's a need in the industry, there's an importance in the industry to raise awareness to bring this to attention of everyone, right, where, you know, not just the electrical industry, like you say, and I think it's important reporting is important. And I think also, maybe trying to limit or reduce these electric shocks is also super important. So one thing that we see in that CSA is Z462 is the you must turn it off unless I can't remember the words what are the words?

Jason Cox: 4:48

The key word is right. The work, if it's going to be done live has to be justified. Right and so without getting really deep into right What the CSA said 462 states. All right, I'm just going to ask you put you on the spot Zack and say, right, I'm going to tell you that the power has to be turned off. Anytime you're doing electrical work, right? If you need to work hot, you have to prove to me or justify to me that it has to be done live. So give me an example that where you would say, Jason, I have to do this live.

Zack Hartle: 5:26

So this isn't a question that has changed, right? Over the years, like we've talked about, I mean, 1015 years ago, it would have been, uh, oh, well, these 10 people can't work while we turn off this circuit because of their computers. Right. But I don't think now that's a justifiable reason for something like that, like in a downtown or commercial office setting. I mean, really, we see the only reason in my opinion would be some type of life saving device, whether you're, you know, taking off server racks that are for, like 911 Call centers or something like that, where there's potential bigger risks by turning it off. So I think those examples are few and far between. And I think that that's a, it's a big change that's come through, and it's coming through now as actually having to get the customer involved in the decision to work live, telling them informing them of the risks. I remember, that was one of the most interesting parts, when we talked with Terry Becker, in Episode 14 of the podcast, was kind of what he was saying is now that there's a responsibility, and even some liability of the customer, for electrical work getting done, they have to sign off saying they understand the risks, and, you know, sign on the dotted line. So I think that's a huge step forward in the right direction. I think the biggest thing now is just getting everybody to adopt that policy.

Jason Cox: 6:47

Yeah, and actually, you didn't give me the answer I wanted. But what I was thinking was, right, like, when do electricians need the power turned on, and I was thinking, I'm gonna like, what you're saying makes total sense. If turning off the circuit could impose a greater hazard them by all means, then, then that's something that needs to be looked at, and thought out before the work process starts. But the other thing I would think about, and this is what electricians say to me all the time is you can't turn off the circuit, I need it on so I can troubleshoot. Right. But in both of those situations, if it's deemed necessary and justified, that the work will be done live, then that would take us all the way into the other area of of a job site assessment of how we're going to do the work. And then, of course, that would also be associated with PPE, and a whole bunch of checklists, right?

Zack Hartle: 7:46

And there's that mentality there like I didn't even think for a moment about troubleshooting being done live because to me, yeah, you do troubleshooting. On a live energize circuit, there's not even that thought process of hazard to me, which is, you know, a problem and in the industry and how it's been and how we don't necessarily take the steps when we, you know, pull out your voltmeter to go troubleshoot a circuit. There is huge hazards at play Sure, you're not opening up splices or tying in big wires into splitters or anything like that. But there's still that, that hazard, just using a meter on a circuit, right?

Jason Cox: 8:24

Absolutely. And I think we're all going to be slowly changing the way we do and the way we do it and with the way we approach certain tasks on a jobsite. So I don't think everyone's going to cut this cold turkey and turn everything off because we got so accustomed to doing things a certain way. However, with like, days like today, and with more information, right, you might start to change the way that you do attempt a certain task on a jobsite so so of course, we want you to turn everything off and follow the legislation. But we understand that I mean, the habits that have been ingrained in our trade for years, that takes a lot for the trade and industry if it's the same thing to start responding and making, making safer decisions and how they operate their businesses and how they perform as trades people.

Zack Hartle: 9:26

And I think that I mean, the obvious, the obvious answer to all of us performing better and working in those safer conditions is to do something to eliminate those shock hazards. And then of course, educate ourselves and what are the risks, how can we avoid the risks? And I think an important step of that is being aware of what are the long term effects of electric shock? You know, we're, we've discussed an arc flash isn't as common as we it's still a huge problem and it's still something we need to be aware of, but it's those little shocks. The 120 volt shocks here and there that are changing light ballasts, things like that that are that really is, in my opinion, what this day is all about is bringing attention to those what we deem minor incidents that could have major consequences.

Jason Cox: 10:13

Well, yeah, and we don't want to be little like arc flash training and the injuries involved with that. But I mean, there was a time when, when just the horrific nature of that event was, was there to educate us, really to scare us into following the rules. And one of the things that we took for granted was the shock. And I, I recently talked to a group of, of people in the electrical industry, and like overwhelmingly, like, over 90% of them had admitted to been being shocked on a job site. And that, I mean, it wasn't a big surprise, but it was a really big number. And I mean, we never thought about the possible consequences to being electrically connected to a circuit that what what is that shock doing to you? And as you said, back in our episode three with John Knoll, right, John described to us some of the consequences to being shocked. And every person is different. And every situation where you make contact with an electrical circuit, could be different. So we don't know what's gonna happen when you are hit with electricity. So we need to make that something that people begin to become aware of. And like we said earlier, change some of the ideas and then educate people. And of course, like, I always like to rambling here a little bit. But whenever I was in a stressful situation on a job site, I'd always like to kind of run through the procedures with a colleague. So if I was in the middle of a shutdown, I would be talking to someone that I respected, and basically someone that you would put your put your life in their hands and say, did we do this yet? Did we do this? Did we do this check, check, check. I'm good. What do you think and the person would check all the same boxes as you. And we would proceed to turn on or turn off the piece of equipment, right. So as long as everyone's learning together, then we can make informed decisions together on safe work practices.

Zack Hartle: 12:32

I agree. I mean, all I think I can add to that, as everyone who's listening to this podcast, please take a look in our description in the show notes. We've got links to the Canadian Electrical Contractors Association, electrical industry day of recognition website, where there's tons of more information. We'll also put links to episode three and 14, discussing the long term effects of shock with John Knoll, and then following it up with Terry Becker talking about how to, you know work safer and be safer and get your dive into that Zed for six to document a little bit. Other than that, thank you so much for listening. Now more than ever, keep yourself safe out there and if you can someone else to