Zack: 0:00

Hello everybody. And welcome back to Watt's the word an electrical industry podcast. My name is Zack Hartle. I'm joined as always by Jason Cox. More importantly, we're going to talk to people from the electrical industry to learn something new. Thanks so much for coming back and listening. Make sure that you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and you can get more. We've got lots of episodes in the works coming up soon. Right now, June is pride month and we're going to be talking about pride and construction. And I couldn't think of a better guest to be talking with. Let's get into it.. We're sitting today with Jessica Loney. She is an advocate in the pride community in construction. she's a co founder of pride and construction now a director at DiversiTrade, which interestingly enough, we're going to have DiversiTrade on, on our next episode. But with it being pride month, we wanted to get Jessica on the show. Like I mentioned, a huge advocate in the, LGBT Q2S+ Community. She is a site supervisor and NCSO, a gold seal, a blue seal. Definitely some more. But Jessica, welcome to the show. Welcome to Watt's the word.

Jessica: 1:10

Yeah, thanks for having me, Zack. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jason: 1:12

And of course, an electrician.

Jessica: 1:15

Absolutely. Master electrician, Red Seal, safety codes officer.

Zack: 1:21

I think I got that in there somewhere, but that's okay. Uh,

Jason: 1:24

We'll, we'll find, we'll find out.

Zack: 1:25

So, all right, we've got a lot to talk about today, Jessica, um, Jason and I. We're going to learn a lot., Making waves right now in the industry, talking about pride, talking about the challenges that that can have within the industry. But first, just tell us about yourself. Tell us, you know, Jessica in three minutes, how did you get to where you are and we'll get more into your story later, I'm sure,

Jessica: 1:48

Oh goodness, that's a lot of uh, interesting stuff to squeeze into three minutes. So I started the trades in 2007 with a local company called Grand West Electric. been with them for 18 years now. I got my Red Seal in 2011. got my NCSO in 2013, um, my Master Electrician in 2016, Safety Codes Officer Gold Seal, stuff like that in 2019, but um, one of the biggest things kind of chronologically was I came out as a transgender woman in the construction industry in late 2019, um, and the industry in Southern Alberta was not. As accepting as it is now, it was quite difficult at first, but there's been a lot of progress made a lot of progress hard fought for, but we're here and it's working out really well for us.

Jason: 2:50

Personally, myself, I've worked with some former staff members that, that had a real hard time. coming out. Um, they, they basically hid their lifestyle choices. So it's an awfully brave thing for you to do. I couldn't imagine just how, how difficult that must have been.

Jessica: 3:09

Well, it's, it's something that I've struggled with since the early 90s, but back then there wasn't the vocabulary, there wasn't the, and the medical terminology, so to speak, like there was still something, but like the only representation that our community had was like Jerry Springer Maury, right? And it was something like shameful.

Jason: 3:34

In the 90s, yeah, I took a sociology course and, um, And it covered all sorts of different lifestyles. And we, we, we were introduced to a whole bunch of things. I mean, it's early, early 90s. And, and yeah, to think about what I learned back then and, and where we are today and even in the last few years. It's, I mean, it's a constant, constant change. And, and, and we're learning more and more every day.

Jessica: 4:06

Absolutely. There's always that forward movement. But like when I first came out, a lot of the people that were in my close circle, they knew me prior to coming out, right? So like there was still that conception of who I was versus who I am. And lot of people found that difficult to deal with. There wasn't a lot of support around that. They didn't know how to. I wouldn't say act, but how to conduct themselves around me.

Jason: 4:35

was one of the talking points that Zack and I were talking about the other day. It was like, unintended distractions, right? Like, you don't, like, it's, there's an awkwardness to, I mean, I've even, just talking to you today, I'm trying my best to not offend anyone. I mean, but we're all, all trying to learn. And I, I think that eventually this will become, um, fairly normal. Uh, when I, when I speak with my children, they grew up with, with trans, students in their schools. It's something that they, trans and gay students, it was something that they were comfortable with and to them that was a normal thing. So, I, I think that there are changes happening. But, Kind of, but it's a little different in the classroom when you're growing up with these people and you're changing. Uh, I, I think we've kind of alluded that it is getting better. We are learning more in all areas. But like, what are some of the challenges still today the Pride community is facing with, employment in the construction industry?

Zack: 5:43

and, just, maybe get my head around this too. Is it. Are we get is the construction industry as a whole? Are we, we're probably slower to adopt and be more accepting. I would imagine. Like, is that, have you noticed that as well inside the industry versus outside a different change of, , acceptance?

Jessica: 6:02

it's kind of interesting because I just sat in on a roundtable with Pride at Work. But it was for like the corporate legal industry, that sector, so office space. And, All I could think of was like, this is completely different than what it's like on a construction site. Right? Um, this industry, the demographic that's currently employed by this industry, they're a little bit slower to be more open minded when it comes to concepts around gender identity and sexual orientation, because construction inherently is this hyper masculine. industry, right? Like you think of a construction worker, it's these burly dudes, you know, in work, blood, sweat, and tears. And absolutely it is, but there's also these other demographics that are making their way in, right? There's women, English for second language, black indigenous people of color, the queer community. Like, it's not so much one defined demographic anymore. It's, it's more broadened. So slowly we're getting there. When it comes to acceptance, but it's definitely progress in the right direction.

Zack: 7:24

I, I at that time that happened either in the industry or in your personal life that made it so that you were able to come out? Like, what was the switch that flipped for you, if you don't mind sharing?

Jessica: 7:40

Well for for me coming out It's like two different things. There's like me coming out and then there's me finding my voice Right. So like when I first came out, I was pretty so to speak I was more afraid of like my surroundings but for me to actually physically come out I had to it. It wasn't a choice I led this hyper masculine facade for so long both in my professional and my personal life that, for lack of better words, it would have killed me, right? And I'm here today and I'm grateful for being here today because I was able to be honest with myself and I was able to be honest with the people around me. But, um, even my coming out story, like, I had the help of Virgin Radio coming out. I came out to the entire city at once. Live on air, uh, as well as the owners of my company. They flew in from Vancouver to have a staff meeting. In Virgin Radio, they weren't even supposed to air it until three o'clock in the afternoon, but they had it like on repeat drive in the morning and everything. So like, all of my co workers were calling me like, what the hell is this? What the hell is So, kind of ruined the surprise there, but um, coming out saved my life. But then there was a long rough patch after coming out. Um, There was vandalism, people messed with my tools, people messed with my equipment, I had screws left in the tires of my work truck, I had cups of urine left on my scissor lift, bathroom was destroyed, um, the wheel, one of the wheels on my scissor lift, someone had loosened all of the bolts that held the wheel on. And as I was doing my pre-use inspection, the wheel fell off. If I didn't do my pre-use inspection and I elevated on that thing with that wheel falling off, I could have died. Like there's all of these things that happened that kind of got me fed up with the industry, so to speak, just like the, culture of the industry and like how it's treated people that were different. So that kind of started like building up the frustration of it. But the big catalyst that got me to find my voice after coming out was the It didn't even really have to do with me. It was someone else on a job site. And for those in construction, they'll know exactly the setting. It was a hot summer day. were all working a slab, right? So form works up, the rebar's down, plumbers are laying out their cans, electricians are pulling their core line between boxes, Rod busters are breaking everything on deck. The usual. And the ironworker foreman was just screaming at this kid, just belittling him in front of everyone. And um, I couldn't take it anymore. this, this kid, he was like maybe 18, 19, still wet behind the ears, so to speak, like didn't know anything. And this guy just yelled at him for eight hours a day, just constantly. And no one said anything to him. Um, you give the warning for offensive language at all?

Zack: 11:10

Yeah, you're good.

Jason: 11:11

can imagine, yeah, I can imagine just, I mean, the, the one of the things that we're kind of stepping around it, but there is, there is, there is that Neanderthal bully attitude in the trades that is apparently, finding its way out. But I, I have been that person that has been tormented in the past, and it's, yeah, it, you wouldn't see that in, in any other industry, and I mean, that's something I think that we're, we're trying to improve, for sure.

Jessica: 11:46

well, that's the big thing is I told this guy, you know, take it out on me and then watch how fast you'll get off site. But I did it in such a way that everyone, like all 50 plus people on that deck, notice. And it, it was just this huge shift in the culture, not only on that site, but like within my own professional development as well. It let me feel that it was okay to have a voice.

Jason: 12:16

So it sounds like, and one of the things I was, I was thinking about is, obviously, you've got all of this that's happened to you personally, and then in your professional life. And then this one incident, and many of us have been in situations where there's someone that is just acting, acting beyond horrible to someone and the harassment and the bullying is just unspeakable. So it sounds like this was one of those moments where you were actually now propelled in and even volunteered or were in a situation where you then became the advocate for that individual and, and also for yourself. Yeah.

Jessica: 12:55

Well, in that moment, it was just, I had to do something, but then I took that moment and I ran with it. I kind of kept that momentum going and I met up with six other queer people in the industry who are all having like circumstance, um, what they're going through on the job, right. Um, with the harassment and bullying and just the, the bullshit, right. And that's kind of how pride and construction started. Was when we had enough and with that we started to get the attention of the media, , different podcasts like, uh, Josh Zolan, Blue is the New White. We were We were on his,

Zack: 13:42

yeah, he's a great, great show. I've act, I've actually been on his show as well. And yeah, the work he's doing is incredible. Just his advocacy for the trades in general. So,

Jessica: 13:51

absolutely. And then, you know, CTV and like national panels with Ellis Dawn and Build a Dream and, and in that summer of 2021, we actually got pride flags to fly on construction sites Alberta, and that was kind of like an unheard thing, right? It was never happened before, so we knew that there was this shift happening, and we just kept, kept that momentum going.

Jason: 14:21

So you've mentioned, so one of my, one of my just canned questions here was, who are your biggest supporters? Obviously you've just mentioned a whole bunch of people there or entities. Um, where do we need more support moving forward?

Jessica: 14:42

There's so many different places, um, I think lot of times people have this conception Any good culture starts top down and like granted, yes, when management buys in, it pours down to the rest of the workforce. I totally get that, but there's all of these companies that are making these policies in the office and they're all high fiving each other, like they did such a great job, but it doesn't translate to the workers on site. There's no education. There's no follow up. If someone does, pardon me, go out of their way and become malicious on site. There's no like reprimand for it. There's nothing that happens. It goes By the wayside and it's just I feel like the the workers on site need to have That type of support like the education support the awareness support And just the freedom to be themselves. And then that could also trickle down into the employers like Employee assistance programs their EAPs their benefits better mental health benefits Right. Like a lot of construction workers, we have maybe 500 a year go see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. And that's like two visits.

Jason: 16:13

Right.

Jessica: 16:14

are you going to accomplish in two hours? Right. And it's just, there's all of these things are like gender affirming benefits. That's another one. Um, and that, that corporate world that I spoke of a bit earlier. huge on that, right? Like, my partner worked for Deloitte for a while, and while she was with them, their gender affirming benefits gave me, like, 25, 000 a year to do whatever I needed to with, up to 100, 000 in a lifetime. Like, that's huge. We don't see that in construction. They had 4, 000 a year in, like, medical benefits, like, for mental health.

Jason: 16:59

Yeah, that could, that definitely could be life changing right there. Yeah.

Jessica: 17:02

eight times as much as the construction industry.

Zack: 17:06

which we, I think we've all heard the stats about how construction industry just in general has such a poor mental health overall. Right.

Jessica: 17:16

I think they're pretty close to men in the construction industry are 40 times more likely to commit suicide and like the numbers are staggering. When we were at the, DiversiTrade was at the program advisory committee at SAIT in February and just some of the stats that we heard around mental health and suicide rates and, um, just the numbers affecting more, especially men in the construction industry was just, it was breathtaking.

Jason: 17:46

Well, I, I mean, it was a lot of, uh, self medication through drugs and alcohol, right? That's, that's, that was my experience back in, in industry. It seemed that the bigger the stress became, the, the more you just self medicated with alcohol or drugs.

Jessica: 18:06

But it wasn't even just self medicating, it was almost celebrated. Right? Like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? Oh, I went out and I got trashed for three days and I'm still hungover. And everyone, again, high fives each other like, oh, that's awesome. Right? But that, that's changing. That was like ten years ago at least. And it hasn't been like that to that degree for a while. But that's where it was, and that's where it was coming from.

Jason: 18:34

Yeah, those, those days are shooting far between now for, for an old guy like me. Yeah. So.

Jessica: 18:42

You still get the young guns that like to party.

Jason: 18:45

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's quite interesting, uh.

Zack: 18:48

the party, it's, that's what matters, I guess.

Jessica: 18:51

But it comes back to those supports, right? And like another thing that would be great for support would be the ability for the employees to ask for help worry of reprimand, to be able to be honest with the employer and say, I have a problem with this, this, and this, without fear of losing their job or fear of being ostracized, through their organization.

Zack: 19:20

So obviously the employer that you work for is great. I mean, they, you, like you said, you've been with them, I think you said 18 years was the number. They helped you, you I'm sure have helped work with them to improve things there. What kind of stuff are you trying to get put in place at your employer that you wish other employers would kind of follow suit

Jessica: 19:40

So like prior to me transitioning, I knew that it was coming. Not only am I like a master electrician site supervisor, but I'm also the health and safety coordinator for the company. I started putting policies in place like the anti bullying and harassment policy and the anti violence policy and the drug and alcohol policy, like all of these things that followed specific models to put protections in place, not only for myself, but those that are like me within the organization. And I made sure to specifically call out the protected classes within the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, as well as the Alberta Human Rights Act, um, like your gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I made sure to specifically mention those, within those policies. But some things that, I'd really like to put in place would be, again, looking at the Employee Assistance Program. So I'm working with our employer, who's with OpenCircle currently. Used to be Merit. And we're exploring options with them around mental health and addictions and, just those kinds of areas, so to speak, to give each individual employee the support that they need outside of work, as well as being able to support them with policies inside of the workplace.

Zack: 21:09

Once we have these policies in place, which so many companies do have something similar. I mean, it sounds like yours are probably a little bit more thoughtful and, intentional with their wording, but how are we taking those policies and implementing them on site and just trying to build that community, uh or safe space on the actual construction site? What are the little steps day to day you're doing?

Jessica: 21:34

So, I think one of the biggest things that a lot of companies don't get is, they have to work with the stakeholders that the policies are written about. So, a lot of these companies, first, like you said, a lot of these companies have something in place. For a lot of places, it's just a box to tick. It's a requirement. It's like this necessity thing. So, if it's not, like, actually wanted. It's just done because it has to. So right there, if that's the culture, it's already failed. But then on top of that, you can't just be sitting in an office writing up this five, 10, however long page document. And again, high fiving all the project managers and the ownership, right? Saying, look at how awesome we are when you didn't even talk to anyone on site. You didn't consult with them. You didn't talk to the queer people inside your organization. You didn't talk to the trans person. You didn't talk to the gay men or the lesbian. You didn't actually get their insight of what would be helpful for them specifically to your company's needs. Cause every company is different, right? Culture's different. Ownership's different. Structure's different. Um, the methodology is kind of the same, but you have to engage with the people that the policy is meant for. You can't just write something and expect everyone to adhere to it if they've never even seen it and you've never talked to them about it before. It's forcing something on them that a lot of people in our industry are already kind of hesitant to buy into. And by having that engagement with them by asking questions and having their input and having them put their touch, their finesse on that policy, it helps with the buy-in right. Cause it's like, Hey, I helped with this. This is a part of me. I contributed to this. It means something now. And if you get everyone in on it, like even if you go site to site and you just do a toolbox meeting and you speak about it and you have just kind of a Q and a, and everyone gives their feedback, then you have that company wide buy in because they were all part of that process. Right. I think that's one of the strongest things that you need to do to be able to get it from the office to the site. is to start by working with the site before bringing it to the office for sign off.

Jason: 24:09

Yeah, and definitely more than just a checkbox. And as, as we're having this conversation, I'm, like, I don't know what the statistics are of, of how many of the, the gay, lesbian, queer community are actually in construction, like 1%, 2%, 10%. I don't know. But, but one of the things from this is that it's going to make the, if we can have policies and procedures and behaviors, like this, we're going to lead to having a safer worksite.

Jessica: 24:42

Absolutely, like safety isn't just the physical aspect, the psychological aspect as well.

Jason: 24:49

I have to look at it from the examples that I ran across and I ran across a couple of times with like really, really serious bullying on sites. And I mean, obviously just your story, I mean, is way beyond anything I would ever imagine. Yeah, this, this could make, the job safer for everyone.

Jessica: 25:12

If people are able to come to work and just be themselves and they don't have to have this facade going on, they're not distracted, right? Efficiency will go up, safety will go up, productivity will go up, buy in to the vision gets stronger. Right in that that cohesiveness of the team. Um, teamwork makes the dream work, right? Like everything becomes better

Zack: 25:42

And like you said, like if we can. Make everybody comfortable at work and bring more people to the site and have them be more productive and more efficient. And word's going to spread quickly to that construction. You can be who you want to be. You can come to work and we're going to add to the workforce. We're looking at a skilled worker shortage coming up in the next few years. I mean, I think that solving or improving pride in construction and Acceptance on construction sites isn't going to solve just one problem, but it's going to help with so many other problems.

Jessica: 26:19

Absolutely. it will make those who are already in the industry want to stay. it will increase retention rates, but on top of that, it will become more attractive to the younger generation because right now the construction industry has this image. Right, and it's it's an image problem. For lack of a better terminology, it's straight, it's white, it's middle aged, it's hyper masculine, all of these things. And the industry is so focused on that demographic that they're missing out on so many talented people, so many hard working, talented people that are afraid to step into the industry they don't fit that box. And I think that if we open up our doors and like take those blinders off, we can definitely help alleviate that skilled labor shortage. And not just with the queer community, but like I said before, what DiversiTrade does is like women, English for second language, indigenous people of color, and the queer community, like all of those underrepresented communities. We try to promote and help navigate the apprenticeship process and help empower employers, to be able to make meaningful employment for these demographics.

Jason: 27:47

Like I've been in the construction industry now for 30 years. And when I got into the trade, it was all white men knuckle draggers, um, and it was just a macho contest. But, , over the decades it is slowly changing. We're seeing more women in the trades now. We're seeing,, more ethnicity in the trades now. There is going to be approximately 13 percent of the construction industry employees are retiring in the next two to three years. We need to do something to encourage people to stay, and we need to do things to encourage people to enter into the trades. And, I think with, with your situation, you've definitely presented some of the problems that we need to address and improve in order to actually have this industry thrive.

Jessica: 28:56

And like, I don't speak for the entire community. I only speak for my own lived experience. And I guarantee you there's going to be people in our community that probably won't agree with what I say, and I might not agree with what they say, but as a whole, I feel like progress is being made. And that initiatives like pride and construction and initiatives, um, like what you're doing right now, even just speaking about it and broadcasting this to your audience is helping normalize it. It's helping give that visual and audible representation. to help peel back the blinders.

Zack: 29:39

I think that's going to be one of the most important steps is just knowledge. Right? We, I mean, as Jason and I talked to you before we started recording, like we are just, we don't know. What we don't know. And we don't know a lot about this topic. So we're, thrilled to have you on. Uh, do you happen to know any statistics of what is the percentage of, uh, queer within construction? Do you have any stats like that, that, you know, or not? Yeah,

Jessica: 30:15

facts because a lot of queer people in the industry don't disclose that they're queer. They're too afraid to, right? In the original Pride and Construction, we did a call out for people to send us their, um, their life story about being queer in the industry. And we had hundreds of people write in to us from Germany, the UK, Australia, South Africa, South America, all across North America. And it was fascinating that with all of these people that wrote in, think there was three gay men. out of all of them it just it goes to show what kind of a stigma it is to be a gay male or male identifying person in the trades and being open about it right like that that really took me back when I took a look at just that ratio of people who took the time to write in but back to your original question it's hard to have those stats because there aren't any right

Zack: 31:26

Uh, tell us a little bit about Pride and Construction. And, like I mentioned, we're going to have DiversiTrade on our next episode, the other two directors. So maybe tell us about Pride and Construction and then, how that led to DiversiTrade, but don't spoil the surprise.

Jessica: 31:42

So pride in construction was 2021 a few years after i came out i was fed up with it after calling out this iron worker it was like enough is enough and i put a call out on Facebook called Alberta Women in Trades. Uh, and the founder of that, who is a friend of mine, Miriam Giordi, Uh, she got me in touch with six other queer people who were in like circumstance. And we all met and we just, we planned like this whole, I don't even know how to say it, like this grassroots movement of like, how can we disrupt? How can we kind of put this out there and throw our insecurities back on the industry? And throughout 2021 during Pride season, With all the media coverage and the global people writing in, and it was just, it was something that none of us expected us it to get to. But after that, once that season calmed down and product construction was winding down a little bit, uh, through the winter months, Miriam introduced me to the other two directors of DiversiTrade. DiversiTrade wasn't a thing yet, but we were all like-minded. We wanted to help the underrepresented communities in the trades, right. And, obviously being through the Alberta Women in Trades group, they really wanted to support women, and as do I. And I really wanted to support the queer community, but it's like there's so many other underrepresented communities that we could be helping at the same time. And we kind of just, we took our own blinders off, our own preferences, and we're like, we have to help like everyone, right? Whoever needs the help, we have to be there for them. And that's kind of how DiversiTrade got started, so to speak. Between the three of us, the other two are absolutely amazing. I'm blessed to be working with them. I won't say too much about it because I don't want to ruin your next episode.

Jason: 33:48

Well, not to put a, I don't know, not to, not to be a downer, but I mean, this is some pretty heavy stuff. And so, where should people that are having a hard time dealing with the stresses that we've been describing. Where would you recommend that they go to get support if they feel like they're alone?

Jessica: 34:10

Oh goodness, there's so many different scenarios of isolation. Um, if they're in the industry and they have benefits definitely look into your employee assistance program for some sort of help. I know Open Circle, they have a really good mental health hotline that you can call there's also organizations like Calgary Pride or The Skipping Stone Foundation for Gender Nonconforming Youth and Young Adults, the Airdrie Pride Society, SafeLink Alberta. all of these different organizations that are there for different reasons. including addictions and if it really comes down to it and you feel like you're really up against the wall, there's always the, suicide hotline as well that you should reach out to because you're never alone.

Jason: 35:00

Well, thanks. I, that was a pretty heavy question for me to to throw at you there, and I think you answered it wonderfully, so I appreciate that.

Jessica: 35:10

And like for what it's worth, they can also reach out to us at DiversiTrade. Like if they want to speak to myself, They can always reach out to me as well.. Zack: How could people learn Where's the best place? So they can reach out to us at diversatrade. ca. Um, they can email us at hello at diversatrade. ca or even my personal jessica.loney@diversitrade.ca. Uh, if they really need someone to talk to as well,

Zack: 35:48

So tomorrow I'm, you know, hypothetical situation here. I'm going to a construction site to work like normal. What's something small I can do to help other people feel more welcome if I don't know the situation that they might be in?

Jessica: 36:06

Just be respectful. Um, One of the biggest things is like if you're an ally And like I know that both of you are you have a respect for the community you support us Obviously by having me here speaking towards it. You're trying to give that representation as well Um, don't just be an ally in front of us, right? take that attitude take that language take your mannerisms into every every room, every situation. I wouldn't say, like, pretend that there's someone queer in the room with you at all times, but just stop being an ally just because we're not there. If someone makes the inappropriate joke, call them out on it, right?

Zack: 36:57

I think, uh, and that's the hard thing, right? I think we all, we all have all been in those situations where you're uncomfortable to speak up, but I think that it, it can just make the world of difference. So good

Jason: 37:09

Yeah, it just takes a little bit of maturity. Jessica, on June 7th, SAIT. Held a Pride in Construction, event, can you just talk about some of the takeaways and the successes from that event

Jessica: 37:24

Yeah, so from the original Pride in Construction just being this grassroots initiative, it's kind of over the years grown into something a bit more formal through DiversiTrade. Um, pride in construction is now kind of like under the diverse trade umbrella, so to speak, but we really put it in a more like I said, an official capacity this year. So on June the 7th, we partnered up with SAIT, TC Energy, the WIT committee at SAIT, Women in Trades and Technology, Radio. There was a bunch of people, Elliston, PCL, Grand Construction, Yard Egg Construction, Energy, Modern Niagara, right? The Skipping Stone Foundation, SafeLink. Like, all of these organizations came out to SAIT, to the Aldridge Center, and we, we showed the apprentices on site, we showed the industry in Calgary that it's okay to be gay in construction. And that it's okay to be yourself, and that there are companies out there. will support you and see you for who you are. And not only that, they will celebrate it and their doors wide with a great big welcome and a giant rainbow flag, so to speak. And it was, it was fantastic. Uh, students at first, it was into the hundreds and then it obviously tapered off. But, at around two o'clock we then held a live panel discussion, uh, where I was the moderator and we had, um, Jenna Nakamura, who is the DEI officer for SAIT. She was the one that kind of did some introductions. We had Laura Murphy from Ryan Murphy Construction also do some introductions. And then we had one of SAIT's own faculty, um, Jane Durango. And Jane is awesome. I know you both know Jane. A lot

Zack: 39:32

Yeah.

Jessica: 39:33

goes out to Jane, uh, being a carpentry instructor. She was one of the panelists. We also had Tammy Amstutz from the Calgary Construction Association, uh, who deals with workforce strategies and like, retention rates and how to do recruitment. And just, she's the lady that loves the data, the hard numbers. And then we were going to have a DEI expert from Modern Niagara come on, but she wasn't able to. So we actually had Dustin Victor come on, who's this up and coming star from Ellis Dawn, uh, in the DEI community, fill in for, this person and he did a fantastic job. So the whole point behind it was we had the academics represented, we had the industry represented, and we had the, the company level represented. Through that panel and then myself representing the workforce as the moderator asking the questions and it was I felt a lot of people that were there that observed it took something home that day. There was value add for their attendance. And SAIT absolutely loved it. Speaking with several of the, deans, the Dean for the School of Construction, the Dean of Apprenticeship, they loved what we were doing. The WIT committee loved what we did. So I feel like this might be an annual thing that we do at SAIT.

Jason: 41:08

Next time we do it, I'm gonna know what DEI means.

Jessica: 41:13

Diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Jason: 41:16

Okay, I was good on two of the three. Okay, thank you.

Zack: 41:20

We both were in attendance. Like we both came, it was awesome. It was fantastic. Like you could have told me it was your 10th year and I would have believed you. It was so well organized, so smooth, welcoming space. And, that the panel discussion, like you said, was just incredible. So I think that. I walked away with lots, lots of knowledge, lots of curiosity. It's, it's kind of what led us to having you on the show today. Is Pride in Construction doing any other initiatives, any other, work?

Jessica: 41:49

Yeah, so right now, um, for myself with Pride in Construction, being the Pride in Construction Chairperson. I've had Pride at Work Canada reach out and they are doing a national roundtable in August of whicDiversiTradede and Pride in Construction are going to be a part of. Last Thursday, Pride at Work Canada was actually in Calgary and held a roundtable with the corporate sector and they invited me to go and sit and just kind of observe the process of what it's like in the corporate world for DEI. And also next Wednesday, uh, I'm doing a speaking engagement for Suncor Energy in conjunction with Skipping Stone Foundation. So there's, there's lots on the go right now.

Zack: 42:39

I think it's amazing that, you know, three ish years ago, you, you found your voice and now you're, shouting from the rooftops. It's pretty, it's pretty empowering. It's very cool stuff. You have to keep it up. You're, you're making a difference. So we really appreciate that. I think we are all wrapped up and like, I just got to say, I mean, I appreciate you coming on the show

Jessica: 42:59

yeah, absolutely. It was a pleasure coming on here .., I'm glad that, uh, I didn't wind up saying certain words that I did. in the

Zack: 43:06

That's okay.

Jessica: 43:07

event.

Jason: 43:08

I, I think we all did exceptionally well.

Jessica: 43:11

absolutely and like, I don't think that there was one point where either of you would have offended anyone through this whole process. You were very kind in the way that you worded things.

Jason: 43:23

Well, that was our intent, so thanks for that.

Zack: 43:27

That wraps up our episode with Jessica. And I'm looking forward to our next episode where we're going to sit down with DisversiTrade speaking with Fietje and Carmen two of the other two co-founders from diverse to trade. As always, Jason, I couldn't be more happy that you are here listening to our podcast, trying to learn more about the electrical industry. It's one that's near and dear to us. We are passionate about it. And we're looking forward to making lots more episodes coming up for the rest of the year. If you have anything you want to say to us, please reach out. Get in touch Instagram, Facebook. Send us an email go to our website. Any of those things we're looking for more ideas for episodes. Most importantly, if you like something that you've heard on this show. Tell a friend, subscribe, leave a review. Anything to help get the word out there. We do this because we like it. And we hope that you like it too. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great day.