Jason Cox: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, a podcast linking together electrical trade and industry members. I'm Jason Cox, and together with Zack Hartle, we're having relevant and informative conversations with members of our industry.

Zack Hartle: 0:15

With us here today as a guest who really couldn't be more passionate about solar PV energy. This is Nathan ward. He's with the Crestview group. He's the Renewable Energy Manager here in Calgary. He's got a really diverse electrical background, commercial design, instructing, actually, and then finally now finding his home in the renewable energy sector. So welcome, Nathan.

Nathan Ward: 0:37

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.

Zack Hartle: 0:39

Absolutely. So with the show, Nathan, you know, it's a little bit of two parts. The first part we want to know, you know, tell us about yourself your background, what do you currently do? Why you're in the electrical industry, and passionate, and then we're going to have you, you know, talk about solar PV energy a little bit, and we have some questions for you on that. So, I mean, take it away, and let us know how you got to where you are today, and why you're what still drives you in the industry.

Nathan Ward: 1:06

Sure, I'll try and be quick. So I first thought about electricity. I think it was around Christmas, when I was pretty young. My sister was plugging in the tree, and she grabbed both prongs, plugged in the lights, and then started to cry. So that was my first experience with electrical didn't think about it much until later. Then started working in different trades, getting exposed to different construction, framing, drywall, plumbing, mechanical, concrete, all kinds of things, and then started helping out with a little bit of electrical. And like, oh, I don't know anything about that. Let's see where that goes. So I started an apprenticeship with pyramid Corporation, worked in their panel shop was great place to spend the first year and a half in the in the trade on working under a roof in the hot summer in a building better than on a roof with someone like now and solar. But we'll get there. So did that for the first year and a half in the trade. Then I worked for Crestview electric doing commercial installations. That was fantastic. I worked with Crestview until I got my journeyman ticket. After after I got my ticket, my uncle who had recommended me to apply a pyramid told me that I should come work for this engineering, he was a firm he was working for. Because they want someone with field experience who understands how these electrical components go together is basically the wording he used. So he asked me to come along and throw in a resume. So I threw in resume, got a job working for them. So I had a great time work for them got to learn AutoCAD and do well site design where as building got to go across country on the energies pipeline and see some really interesting old equipment. That was pretty cool. So did that for a couple of years. And then I worked at SAIT teaching the apprenticeship program and helping to develop the solar course. That was a lot of fun. Then I felt the call of industry and had to had to get back to the field. So I came to Crestview electric, again, where I now run our renewables division CVE solar. So focusing on solar, but I do have little side projects like our turbine here behind me. So

Zack Hartle: 3:52

alright, so I like that. But what what I guess what drew you to solar? So you came to St. You're instructing at SAIT? Was it just happened chance that you built the solar course? Or was there like what got you into I guess, the solar PV industry? What makes you passionate about that,

Nathan Ward: 4:08

specifically, I think solar is from by training at SAIT that most got me interested in it. So one instructor I had back when I was a third year, was really passionate. I could tell he was invested in the trade. And I think it was in one of the third year classes, some somehow somehow we got talking about solar. And I was just fascinated by it. I'm not a lot of the third year curriculum, curriculum addresses solar. So I went off on my own and just devoured any resources I could find about learning about solar and kind of I've tried to get that different training. So I've taken several courses over the years and again developed that course it's a to help Keep solar alive in Calgary. And yeah, just, it's an interesting technology, like, no moving parts. Sudden hits it and you get current and voltage out. That's, it's pretty cool to me.

Jason Cox: 5:17

It's really interesting, like the just the, like you said, I mean, we take it for granted now, I mean, everyone's been using solar powered calculators for 20 or 30 years. But now to see this actually being used as an actual energy source, versus just our standard generators that we've used in the past, or hydro, electricity and other provinces. It is it is quite interesting. And I mean, you happen to just dovetail into this industry almost at the perfect time. And that's not to say that you were able to latch onto it, but it was people like yourself that really got this, this movement going. And, and I mean, the Lots has changed over the last 10 years. It's it just seems to be building and expanding. And it seems like we have these new installs throat. Well, for our for our purposes here in Alberta. There's solar installs being done on Grand big farm scales all over the place now to supplement the grid. So so good for you for having that energy and, and being one of those contributing factors. Now Now you're one of the subject matter experts of solar vers. And it was all just from your, from your interest in hard work of researching this project. So so good for you.

Zack Hartle: 6:42

So I mean, I guess I mean, that's excellent. Right, all these opportunities came to you. And now you like you've landed in your spot as the Renewable Energy Manager. And as Jason just mentioned, right, solar, it's changing, and it's growing, and it's evolving. And it's, you know, the last decade, we've just seen an enormous exponential growth and uptake of solar. Where do you think it's headed? I mean, do you think it's headed more towards smaller scale? Or do we see these farm scales being, I guess, the future of solar a mix of both? What are your thoughts on the future?

Nathan Ward: 7:14

I mean, it's absolutely, of course, gonna be a mix of both. It's not like we're gonna stop doing home solar or stop doing farm solar. They're both integral components of the future grid. I see homes and businesses being critical in stability for the grid, being able to offset your loads on site mitigating the need for transmission and distribution upgrades in the grid support. Those non wires, alternatives that you can get, whether that's solar or solar and storage in the home or in the business, that's going to be huge for grid sport, especially on with hot summers, like we're experiencing with this heatwave right now.

Jason Cox: 7:57

What this is, like right now, this is the hottest weather record we've ever had in in Alberta. I look outside and there is not a cloud in the sky like solar people must be just rubbing their hands together with the clear skies, the bright sun, but I mean, obviously there's a little bit of heat there too, right?

Nathan Ward: 8:15

Yeah. I mean, yes. And no. solar installers always love the summer, right? It's better than getting on a roof in the middle of February. Yeah, no. So the interesting thing about solar in is like the actual technology is, with the silicon solar cell, you've got a negative temperature coefficient. So you actually get more energy out of it more power, more higher voltage when the cells are cooler. So if you've got a sunny day, and it's relatively cool, and versus a sunny day, and it's relatively hot, that cooler day is going to produce very bit more energy.

Jason Cox: 8:57

So we're looking at Bright sunny days at 15 degrees Celsius. That's, that's, that's more of a happy day for you guys. Yeah, yeah.

Nathan Ward: 9:06

Right now, you'll you'll see a little bit of a dip from all that heat. I mean, it's not gonna be ridiculous about like cutting the energy production half, but it is there.

Zack Hartle: 9:19

Quite a bit better to work and 15 degrees Celsius to then. I mean, we're 830 in the morning right now. And it's 25 degrees. So

Jason Cox: 9:30

yeah, it was I mean, in in environments where, where these temperatures are normal that the construction workers are starting at four in the morning so that they can go home by midday. I would think that's something that's would almost be necessary right now in this this this heatwave? Yeah, absolutely.

Nathan Ward: 9:50

I'm glad I'm not much on the day to day management to the field guys, because this would not be the most fun time to be outside.

Jason Cox: 9:57

Okay, so when we're starting to Look at the future here. One of the questions I have is if we move towards these solar systems on roofs and residential occupancies and stuff and with the changes coming in, in the, in the Evie in the, in the future, how are we going to be able to plug in our cars and have solar in our house and still not exceed that maximum OSI on the breaker in your

Nathan Ward: 10:29

home? Well, it's all about when you're using that energy. So anybody even if you're not in the electrical trade, if you go look at your home electrical panel, then you add up all those numbers on the on the breakers, it's going to be a lot more than the number on the main breaker, right, your main breaker average home, you're looking at 100, amp main breaker, all if you add up all those breakers underneath it, you could theoretically draw a lot more energy than that main breaker can handle. But you don't have all your circuits fully loaded all the time. There's there's different factors at play there. Now, with with regard to the solar and EVs, it's all about timing. So if you're able to charge that Eevee during the day, for example, in this last year, if you've been able to work from home, if you've been lucky enough to do that, and you can charge that during the day off your solar, you're essentially getting free fuel for free vehicle. So there's gonna be a ton of different challenges for that future grid, whether it's more nimble utilities, charging, different time of use metering, time of use rates, pardon me. So those different time of use rates can incentivize charging at different times. Historically, what your service from from the utility hasn't been really quantified? Well, are you entitled to up to 100 amps 120 to 40 all the time anytime? Or does the future utility model? Say you can draw three kilowatts between this hour and this hour and five kilowatts between this hour and this hour? And et cetera, et cetera? Do they give you new limits? It's gonna be a really interesting time to see how that moves forward. I think one of the key drivers, there's going to be advanced metering infrastructure, smart meters, things like that.

Jason Cox: 12:32

Well, that makes sense. Right? That would be a lot cheaper than having to replace conductors. I'll just put it as simple as that. So yeah, with different ways in different metrics is, I mean, it's very similar to what they're doing, or they have done in Europe for years, right? It's not unheard of, for people to be doing their laundry, late at night in, in Europe, right? Just because of a rebate on the lower energy costs at that time. So you don't want to be you don't want to be running your, your all your air conditioning and trying to charge your electric vehicle at this time. That might be that might be difficult. Yeah, absolutely.

Nathan Ward: 13:13

But I mean, if if you can give people that price signal as to and transparency as to what they're paying, and how much energy they're using, then they can make better decisions for themselves and financially and better decisions for the grid, as a whole helps us mitigate the tragedy of the commons with any kind of infrastructure project. So that's a great point. I did see an interesting case study. I think it was a year or two ago for this. And I believe you have a did a study on one feeder section. And they simulated, essentially, it was one essentially one transformer and feeding kind of a community or one substation feeding community, a little bit of business and in residential. And I think they simulated a 2% adoption rate on electric vehicles. And they said, if we get past that 2% adoption rate, then that feeder section would be overloaded and need several million dollars in upgrades. So that on its own is relatively scary thought. But if we get to a place where we can get that advanced metering infrastructure out there, and give people those price signals and the ability to better control their loads, then you can definitely offset or postpone some of those upgrades, or perhaps even postpone them till they're not needed. Because by the time you get to a place where you absolutely would have to make those upgrades. Maybe we're in a scenario where we've got higher quality, lower cost, home energy storage systems, whether that's hydrogen fuel cells or battery storage or, or whatever. Where else?

Jason Cox: 15:02

Yeah, well, that's I mean, battery storage is the big kicker now that when we start talking about solar, and renewable, right is that a lot of a lot of people don't understand that. The big cost comes from those batteries, for sure. I also liked how you kind of you mentioned a moment ago, about just informing people about just the the metering and the monetary rates, I mean, basically, you just have to change a behavior. And I mean, that happens naturally with, with adults when they move from being an adult to a parent, and we turn into our parents and run around and turn off all the lights. Because that behavior is in place, because we know that we if we shed the load, right, ideally, our power bill would come down. The behavior is also being marketed now with car insurance to a fault where people are ridiculed for driving slow to the hospital or whatever. But it's like, I need to keep my insurance rates down. So So I guess, with some education and some changes in how we meet her, yeah, maybe there's there's, there's hope there.

Zack Hartle: 16:13

So, I know, we've talked about this, and you're working on some of these, you know, more farm scale soldiers, right, that are now contributing to the electrical grid in the province. And they're participating in the electrical pool here. And I mean, we could talk for hours about how electricity is quantified and built in Alberta, of course, but what are these? What does a farm scale project look like? You know, from start to finish? What steps go on? I mean, there's got to be a huge design phase. And

Nathan Ward: 16:46

I start I guess, first it looks like a field. Yeah, big field, then it looks like a field with a bunch of stubble sticking out. That's Devil is pile. So big chunks of metal, IBM, typically driven into the ground. So that's been a sport to racking system. So it's this big. So we're talking 5000 foot view, what what it looks like, it'll start to look like field with stubble sticking out of it. And then you're you'll see more and more job trailers coming in. As as more trades start to come to site as after the pile driving is complete. So pile driving is incomplete or, or one section of it's complete, it kind of moves in waves. It's an interesting progress. Relative to traditional electrical work, like you can't think of it like a commercial building, you almost need to think of it like a factory. Right? It's like an assembly line, you're doing one piece at a time. And then you're moving down the line to the next section and the next section and the next section. So yeah, start started with that empty field piles get driven, then the racking crew comes in. A lot of the times on these farms scale solars, the racking crew seems to be carpenters or laborers during that installation. It's interesting because generally as electricians, we install most of our own racking system and for when we think racking system in general electrical, maybe we were thinking of a bunch of unit struts to hold up, hold up pipes, and we think of that as a rack. When I say rack, I'm talking about the solar mounting system. So one particular project we're working on, I won't mention the name, but it's using a tracking system. So there's two common types of solar racking, for farm scale projects. You have fixed tilt, which as the name sounds is fixed in one direction and not moving and then you have tracking systems, trackers can be of two types it can be dual axis trackers, or single axis trackers. So single axis trackers, typically you'll see if the piles in north south rows, and the panels are going to track from east to west throughout the day. So tilting and tracking the sun throughout the day trying to be as close to perpendicular to the sun as they can get that will give it fairly significant energy yield. Increase. So yeah, so racking crew comes in those carpenters start installing the racking system, and then they'll have what they call a blast route come in these sometimes our electricians sometimes are not generally though, they should be at least supervised by an electrician. So yeah, so those guys will come in and take the solar modules out of the pallet. Lift them up, put them on the racking bolt them in place. And we go then you have your solar module with its DC leads hanging below. Sitting there definitely. Definitely need to be supervised. I wish I could share this picture when I'm My guy sent me from our site. It's like the captain, you have one job. And the solar module was on the rack, but they had crushed the one lead and in between the racking in the module. So mistakes can be made even on simple tasks. Anyways, sorry. Off topic. Yeah. So once you've got the glass in place, this is where the electrician start to really come in. So this is where we would be running our our DC cabling along the racking system fastening to it. So, on this project, I think we got strings out 25 modules. So how deep do you want to get into like, just?

Zack Hartle: 20:43

Yeah, that's okay. So what like, what 25 modules? How, what kind of DC voltage? Would you be talking so then,

Nathan Ward: 20:49

yeah, so we're sitting a little bit underneath 1500 volts DC. So really, really good. Really relatively high voltage there. Something most electricians aren't exposed to or working with, unless they're in the solar industry. It's it's pretty interesting to see the actual connectors and things you're working with, and pretty simple devices. Easy crimp connection fingers safe, plastic connectors. Yeah, it's really interesting. So anyways, once the modules are hanging there, you interconnect them one to the next. And then you have string cabling that goes to one end of that row 25, and the other end of the row of 25 modules. And then we bring all that wiring from all these different strings back to what we call a combiner. Box. So that takes the individual strings, operating 1500 volts, and brings them together with a bunch of other strings. And so if each string is operating around 10, or 11 amps or so, now we're bringing them in with 2930 other strings into a combiner box. Now we've got a lot more current available at that location. So from there, we've got all that 10 gauge wire from the strings coming in. And then we're heading out of that combiner box with of course, a much larger wire because as we bring them together in parallel current current adds. So we're heading out with whether it's 350, or 500, or 750. All depending on length for how much will drop we want to, we're gonna see in that cable, based on how far it is from the inverter skid. Back from the, from the combiner box to the inverse kid, you've got all these five, hundreds and 750s coming in from the different combiners. And then you've got your inverter skid, where you have all your DC coming in from all the combiner boxes out of that inverter are of course, using the inverters convert from DC to AC, that will then typically go into a transformer and then step it up to a medium voltage. So some of these inverters are really interesting. They're not typical voltages like we see in general electrical installation is not 120 208 or 277 40, or 347 600. Sometimes you'll have real oddballs like 800 volts AC, but anyways, that doesn't matter so much because it's generally directly connected to inverter to a transformer then that transformer distributes out to the back to the substation at 25,000 volts or 35,000 volts, just to minimize your losses. And then from the substation, you're bringing in all the energy from all these different inverters on site, so we've gone from string level back to combiner, combiner to inverter, inverter to substation and substation. Back out to the grid. It's, it's pretty cool process. The other electrical work I guess I didn't really mention is the trenching portion. On the solar sites, there's generally a lot of trenching. On another thing, option, different from trenching, we have an overhead wire wire method. It's not really overhead, but it is above ground. There's a few different brands but basically, it's generally a copper clad steel cable. And to that you'll have these little hangers you'll attach on every meter or so. And then you take that string cabling and you can hang that in there. You take minor box cabling, hang that in there. It's it's really neat to see completely different wiring method from what most of us were exposed to. And in general electric work. Most people have done trenching at some point in their in their trade. But this is this is very different. So but other than that, like it's it's relatively simple connections. You're just doing it 1000s and 1000s. times, so and as the project goes together, each of these steps, they have different commissioning things and tracking things, it's so it's very organized, it's there's a lot of reporting that needs to be done a lot of commissioning, testing a lot of voltage, current testing, voltage testing all these different specific steps to make sure that everything's done right. And consistent. Because whenever you're doing something 1000s and 1000s of times, that's when people can get complacent mistakes can be made. So there's lots of different strategies we try to use to mitigate for them. And, and, and make sure those simple mistakes don't happen. So

Jason Cox: 25:43

and So when, like, just from my point of view, in my experience, when it came to big scale electrical installs, I mean, we typically worked with a general and all of our design came right from an engineering company, right? So when when you guys go to do the commissioning here, obviously, you're working with an engineer, but you yourself when you're designing your systems, that those designs have to then also go to some sort of engineer for validation? Or how does that work?

Nathan Ward: 26:17

Yeah, it definitely varies project to project. So I do do design projects, as well. Mostly my just designs have been commercial, a bunch of residential as well for solar design. But yeah, typically, I start out with my design, so I look at the roof surface, or building surface or, or field or whatever we're doing, and, and try to work from my solar fundamentals, and figure out where we can get the best energy harvest, how to best support those solar modules. And and start from there. So once I figured out that, then I work backwards and say, okay, electrically, what do I need? How much energy am I going to get out of this? And then I take that information, and then take it back to the service, how am I going to connect to the service? What size of conductors and we're going to need? How much am I allowed by code are allowed by different wire service provider regulations? How much can I feed into this service, and still get it through the permitting process. And then when the engineering comes in, not needed on residential projects, but it is needed on most large scale commercial projects. Generally, we, if it's not a pre engineered project, and I'm just doing the install on, but if I'm doing the design, we typically, I would do the design and then send it off to any engineering company that we feel like doing a little favor with and they review my designs and and sign off on it. Sometimes it will have a little comment, but a little back and forth little discussion as to why I made certain design decisions. But generally people have been quite receptive. So.

Jason Cox: 28:09

And then another question I have is, once again, most electricians, we're taking the utility power and supplying a load, which is a building typically of some sort. You are providing the power to the utility. So So there's, I'd imagine there's some interaction there between the installers of the system, and then then the utility, is that correct? Not a lot between the

Nathan Ward: 28:37

installers and utility, I mean, certainly, there will be a little coordination with metering if there isn't appropriate metering infrastructure in place. But generally, most the interaction with utility is done way back to the design stage and permitting stage. So not a lot of field interaction. But you do get to see a lot more of the utilities connection to the, to the building, than you might if you're just a typical service electrician or are coming in after the utilities connection really gets you an ability to see into the distribution equipment a lot better. So it's it's fun and interesting in that way.

Zack Hartle: 29:20

So you're talking about during the install of this, this farm scale, right, there's there's portions done by laborers, and then there's portions is done by electricians. And I know, based on some conversations we've had in the past, this is a I don't know, it's a point of debate and a point that you're really passionate about, but where is that line between work that can and should be done by laborers and work that can and should be done by electricians, and what's your thought on that line? And if it's in the right spot?

Nathan Ward: 29:49

I mean, I don't know if it's in the right spot right now. It seems that the government has taken a stance that fracking installation doesn't need to be done by electricians I fall on under the camps that the racking install absolutely should be done by the electricians. My reason being. We're responsible for the grounding and bonding of all equipment we touch right guys. So if we're responsible for grounding and bonding of that equipment. That's that's an electrical connection. So we should be the ones making it. Does it make sense? Do electricians want to do that racking installation? I mean, your work with heavy metal all day long. So some of its depending on if it's punched in rolled system or things like that can have sharp edges. Does the average electrician want to work on that? That's another question. I got. So should they do? So it's, it's kind of a toss up? I would obviously like to protect the trade and have us be responsible for that work. But whether or not the field guys actually wanted to? That's an interesting question.

Jason Cox: 31:05

I think it has to do with where we are in the economy. I mean, exactly. In my lifetime. I've seen. I mean, obviously, I've been through a couple of booms and busts now or seeing the cycle, maybe not multiple times, but there was times where electricians could afford to be a little picky on what they wanted to do and where they wanted to work. And then in recent times, right, the the amount of work as is not been there for the the mass community of electrician. So I think yeah, like you're saying, I mean, it's, it's the same with anything what I mean, this is electrical, right. So there's always that one job that maybe you don't want to do. But if there's nothing else to do, then for sure, right? Yeah.

Nathan Ward: 31:54

Maybe we'll do it. So. So yeah, it's, yeah, we can get, obviously, we want to always have the most electricians working, but you can understand sometimes why they're not. Yeah, and there's definitely been a little bit of difference in the this most recent crop of apprentices and willingness to work and what work they're interested in, in what work they will just won't seem to be interested in, in doing. So.

Zack Hartle: 32:24

I think that's definitely changed a bit. I remember digging trenches for a year and a half before touching a piece of conduit or anything like that. So,

Nathan Ward: 32:32

yeah, or maybe you touch conduit every day. But you're the you're just the guy who brings it from the first floor to the fifth floor. That's it. Yeah, the start of apprenticeship for some people, is very different than start for others. And that's something we all need to do better at to try and keep people engaged in and try and get the apprentices thinking of it, like a career, not just a job, right. I'm very fortunate in what I've been able to do with my career and, and the ways I've been able to move, but it's all on the back of being an Alberta journeyman redsea, electrician, not other special skills, just just electrician at the end of the day.

Zack Hartle: 33:16

Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's a good point, right? You've, you've really taken advantage in your career of exploring new opportunities, searching for new things. So I mean, if there's people listening, or people out there who come to you and ask, like, what should they do if they're interested in learning more about solar, or working on solar as the electrical apprenticeship? But obviously, I mean, be our recommendation here as three electricians But absolutely,

Nathan Ward: 33:40

obviously, we might be biased. But yeah,

Zack Hartle: 33:43

anything else they should be looking at if they're trying to get into solar? Or is it just, you know, search out for solar companies and apply? Or what if someone came to you, what would you want them to have?

Nathan Ward: 33:54

Basic electrical knowledge and work ethic is all I'm looking for. To feed and Artbeat and you want to show up for work? It's the work isn't that hard? If you're on a solar farm, it absolutely can be monotonous. Like, there are certain jobs that just have to be done, right? We need to strap that wiring. So you're gonna operate tie wraps for three, four weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, depending on what crew you're on. But we try and rotate guys through we try and give you interesting jobs. I guess my advice to the new apprentice or young electrician, ask questions or your Foreman to Hey, why are we doing this? I mean, definitely, certainly pick your timing, but ask questions, be enthusiastic. That's it's, it's got me a long way. I definitely wouldn't have the skills I have now. If I didn't ask questions.

Zack Hartle: 34:53

And I think that's something that maybe has become lacking, I guess in the last few years just talking with people is the same way, as you know, you got to ask questions. Why are we doing this? How can we're doing it this way? Is there other ways of doing this? Right? And just asking those questions or it's key to learning, right, as we all know, and, and like you say, asking at the right time, I remember always, my journeyman had told me, you know, if you got to talk to the foreman, it's based on how fast they're walking, if they're walking really fast, it's not the right time. Right? Because they're probably going to put up some kind of fire somewhere.

Nathan Ward: 35:28

Yeah. Yeah, reading the room. Absolutely.

Jason Cox: 35:35

So Nathan, I've got a heartbeat. And I've got two feet. I think that's how you put that. As a parent of a young adult, if my son or daughter was interested in, in pursuing a career career in electrical, and was interested in the solar, how would that look if they wanted to apply for a position? With with your company? Right?

Nathan Ward: 36:02

Yeah, so good question. So I guess, for my philosophy and Crestview philosophy, how we try to treat our apprentices. I try not to have solar specific people. I don't know if this comes from my time teaching, or it's, I mean, it's just just how I think I want you to be a good overall electrician, not just a solar installer, right? It's, it's one trade, not two trades. So I would try, come apply to us, we may get you on a soul project right away, we may get you on a general electrical project could be commercial project, it could be assisting someone in the service, man, all kinds of different projects. So we, number one, get you indentured, get your safety trained. And then you'd be out on a site working, again, to feed a heartbeat. But also the other thing I mentioned, enthusiasm, show up every day, ask questions, and you will go far in this company. So enthusiasm, and a positive mindset goes a long way than a pair of steel toed boots in a tool.

Jason Cox: 37:19

Absolutely. All right. Is there anything else you'd like to add there? Zack? No, I

Zack Hartle: 37:25

think that I mean, that comes down to you know, again, the the accountability and the integrity of the trade, which is really part of the messaging. is, you know why we started this podcast is what makes the trade great. And what can keep it great. So that it doesn't shift away from that, you know, it's given all of us so much, and we just want to give that back. Right?

Nathan Ward: 37:48

Yep. And I think one way we can keep keep the trade strong, is just keep being enthusiastic, keep caring about the trade and get more people in who care and encourage those who don't to leave.

Jason Cox: 38:06

You definitely I like your your point today about asking lots of questions, right? We need to have conversations, everyone needs to be informed. Right? And that can only help to make our trade stronger. And, and yes, it's not. We don't want to have just one segmented. I install solar I installed pipe. I'm the guy that digs the ditch, right? You need to be refined and know how to do everything. And a lot of that comes from practice. So yeah, so there's a lot of repetitive jobs out there. And hopefully, you're, you're, you're refining your skills so that you know what you're

Nathan Ward: 38:46

doing. Right? Absolutely. Just Just practice implementation and try to try as many different things as as you go through your apprenticeship, for sure.

Jason Cox: 38:59

Well, I'd like to say on behalf of Zack and myself, thank you so much, Nathan for being with us today. And we'd like to thank our listeners for joining Watt's the Word podcast today. We'd love to hear from you. And if you liked the show, or have any suggestions for us for a future episode, we greatly appreciate that. Make sure that you leave us a review. Reach out to us on Instagram, or comment to let us know your thoughts. Once again. Ask questions talk to us. Right we would like to make the industry better. We like to learn hopefully you like to learn. We'll be back every second Monday with a new episode for you. Make sure you subscribe and thanks for listening.

Nathan Ward: 39:39

Thanks for having me, guys.