Zack Hartle: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Watt's the Word podcast. We got a very special episode for you today here on episode number six. As you know, the show is all about connecting with the electrical industry having relevant conversations with members from throughout the industry, just to learn a little bit more. However, you're always here listening to me and Jason, talk to guests, I figured today we would have Jason Cox on, and he can talk about why he's here on the show and his background. And we'll go from there. So I'm really glad today to be talking to my co host normally, Jason Cox.

Jason Cox: 0:35

Well, thanks for inviting me, Zack, I'm probably going to smile more in this episode than any one we'll ever do.

Zack Hartle: 0:41

Obviously, Jason, we started this podcast, and we've got five episodes down already. And we've had tons of fun. We've got a lot of good guests lined up are in the works. But I want to know a little bit more about you. And I think our guests might want to know a little bit more about you. And of course, we'll do an episode where you can ask me some questions later on. So why don't you tell me about your pathway into the trade how you got into the trade? And we'll start with that.

Jason Cox: 1:10

All right. So and we say so when we ask the questions, and I'm starting with a so how I got into the trade. I like most people my age in the early 90s. Society was sending all of us to university when we graduated from high school. A lot of times we didn't know why we were going we that was just a career path that we were supposed to follow. And so I had no idea what to take university. And so I was really, it really was difficult for me to jump on board and go in that direction and not have an idea of why it was going so so I took a year off, which is very similar to a lot of people we we've heard from and I took a year off hoping that some some epiphany would come it never did. I did end up attending two and a half years of Mount Royal College in Calgary, which is now a Mount Royal University. And I was working on a degree. However, the trouble I had getting into university not knowing what I was doing, plagued me through that whole time at Mount Royal to a point where I just I finally had to tap out and say I can't do this anymore. I'm I'm not, I have no desire to be here. So I decided to take a break from university or college. And I knew I had to get a job. But I thought you know what, why don't I get a job that has this crazy, our landline is ringing? Why don't I get a job where I can actually, like build something and make more money than just the bottom end? Entry level? Minimum Wage stuff, right? So so I actually dropped out of university or I like to say I completed a semester and then left. So when people say dropout, kinda always bugs me, but And so eventually I, I phoned my uncle who is an electrician, and I said, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at getting a trade. What do you think? And like all electricians, he said, Oh, well, come see me. And I wasn't looking to be an electrician. I just wanted to talk to a trades person. But he said, Well, come see me. And we'll get you. We'll get you out of the trade real quick. But it didn't happen. And here I am still today. So that's kind of how I got into the trade.

Zack Hartle: 3:52

No, and like you say, that's a story we hear from so many people, right? It's they're not quite sure what to do. So they almost fall into electrical stumble into electrical. And I mean, of course, all of our guests are still involved in the industry, but it's a good stepping stone into other paths. So once you got in, where's that taken you over you set early 90s. So I mean, not to put a number on it. But in the last three decades, where has that taken me to?

Jason Cox: 4:19

Well, we're not quite at three decades yet. But so I kind of stumbled on this in one of our previous podcasts, and people probably didn't pick up on it, but I was actually indentured twice. So I started my apprenticeship in British Columbia. And I worked there for my uncle and he was a single owner, single employee company. I was the only ever pardon me employee with the company. And I worked for him for about six months in the acute nice and I enjoyed what I was doing. But being a young adult in the coot knees it was quite isolated. And I decided, after a period of time of doing a lot of residential and actually a little bit of diversity, it was a beautiful area to live, but I needed to move back to Alberta. And, and work in in the Calgary area. And so, needless to say, and actually, to be honest, I didn't mention this earlier. But I did initially look at joining the union out of, well, when I first started this this adventure, my uncle said, I don't know if when the union CFL put you to work, but there was no work in Alberta. And so my uncle said, well come out work for me. So it worked for him for over six months, six or eight months. I don't really recall how many months but and then moved to Alberta. Still no work in Alberta. But I got a job. But it was in industrial. So I didn't know what that was. So I just said sure electricals electrical, and went and did some industrial for a year and a bit. decided I didn't want to do that and then spent the bulk of my career in electrical, working for a larger commercial company in Calgary. So I did that for a while since I mean, obviously, yeah, that I think that was that was my last employer before my my education career took off.

Zack Hartle: 6:26

Nice, very cool. And I want to get to your education career because it's I don't know, how we met and why you're here and along the way, you got a second ticket, you picked up your data communication, wireless, something technician, you tell us what that is.

Jason Cox: 6:45

So it's very interesting, this multiple ticket phenomena or whatever we want to call it now is becoming very common. You and I both know several people that hold more than one ticket. So the company I was working for, had the opportunity to start training apprentices or in or in, so So was a electrical contractor, but they also would now have the ability to train communication, electricians, so I indentured in that apprenticeship after receiving my red seal, journeyman ticket. I think I worked as a journeyman for one year, maybe it was a long time ago, worked as a journeyman for a year and then looked at that opportunity to do the data apprenticeship. And so I indentured into a program called the communication electrician, network craft so so that apprenticeship was split into two different sections, the network craft, and then the construction craft. So the construction craft would be actually mounting the poles and running the telephone and data and fiber lines and all the underground stuff. And I was more interested in the interconnection stuff. So I started in that apprenticeship. And actually, our company could only indenture in the network craft that because we were in that we were in that skill set. So I decided to do that like many other people that we will probably talk to and have talked to because you more training equals more job security. And one of the things that's lost in our trade over the last probably decade is the fact that working in the trade, especially in the electrical trade, it wasn't always a guaranteed thing that you would work 40 hours a week, full time all the year, right. There was times when I was always looking to see what the next job would be, hey, where are we going next? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? And there were there were times in my experience in industrial and commercial where you'd have to wait a couple of days for a job to start up. And my experience with with our company in Calgary was that the more skills I had, the longer I'd be working. So that's why I looked into a second apprenticeship. That's why I did it.

Zack Hartle: 9:15

So this electrician communication, network craft apprenticeship that you did. Is this still an option? Is this still a ticket that's available in Alberta? And do you recommend that other journeyman electricians look into it as a viable second path?

Jason Cox: 9:34

Well, something interesting about that is first of all, our listeners will understand that the electrician trade in Alberta is a red seal trade. My second ticket is actually not a red seal trade, which I find amazing, but it's a moot point. me because I already have one red seal. So who cares. However, that apprenticeship actually changed while I was in it. And so initially, it was called a communication electrician in the network craft. And then they just changed that apprenticeship to be called now a communication technician. So that changed in the, in the actual name of the apprenticeship annoyed a few people because they wanted to be called a journeyman and when that when it finished, and very similar to Chelsea, in our last episode, there was both men and women that said, I want to be called a journeyman. I'm a journeyman. And I agreed with what they were with, with what they were what they were saying. But I, once again, I was fortunate because I was already a red seal electrician. Now, is that trade still available? When I indentured in that trade? The problem was that that trade was predominantly for members of TELUS or members that worked at AGT. So AGT and TELUS so it was a TELUS basic, basically, like there was three of us in our apprenticeship that were not tell us employees. And and so Nate and st did the training for that it was a new training program for sate. And when I indentured, I had to wait a very long time to actually get the schooling in Calgary, there was just a delay and in demand, and there wasn't enough students to put it on in Calgary. So. So to answer that question, now, is that apprenticeship still available? I believe it is. It is not available. If you would like to train in Calgary, I believe that training is being done in Edmonton. But I do not know if that training is being done by Nate or if it's being done in house by TELUS. So if people are interested in that trade, I definitely would talk to them about it, I would give them my opinion about it. The funny thing is that the theory and the training in the communication apprenticeship was harder than in the electrical apprenticeship. So as a person with two tickets and communications and in power electrician, whatever we call it, I was an electrician. I was always kind of like the go between, right between, right the, the stereotypes of the electrician and the data guy, right? So I'd always kind of talk back and forth to both sides, because many times, you would be on sites where there would be a contractor for the power on the site, and then another contractor for the, the voice and data communication. So it'd be funny because I one side, I could be the power guy, the next site, I could be the data guy. And on some sites, I was both and I am proud that I was the first to ticket journeyman or the person with two tickets at my company in Calgary is the first one ever in their company. So So yeah, talk to me more if you're looking at communication apprenticeship, and we'd probably both have to look it up together.

Zack Hartle: 13:19

Nice, very cool. So with that double ticket, and communications and electricians what kind of doors that open for you in the field.

Jason Cox: 13:30

Well, it's funny, because when we first talked about in a previous episode, I talked about not wanting to be the ditch digger. And because I was a laborer, and then I wanted to become the apprentice. So we'd get I was too good for digging the ditch. Right. So I was a little naive with that. So I kind of thought that once I was a journeyman electrician now and now I was the now as indentured in a apprenticeship and communication now that I'd be off of all the hard, hard rough stuff of the, of the electrician job, right. But it turned out that no, I was exploited for both positions. So So I did run around Alberta, and I ran a bunch of rigid steel conduit, and I pulled in a lot of fiber. So so that was, that was kind of a neat experience. So, I mean, there's not a lot of data guys that are running rigid steel, right. So that was kind of cool. I was lucky over my years in the trade. I was in residential, commercial, industrial, lots of different experiences. And yeah, overall, lots of really neat, neat places, neat buildings. I had no criminal record and I still don't so I was able to get some pretty high security for electrical installs and went to some really interesting buildings and sites in Alberta running fiber for the Alberta government so slow Pretty cool. So, so did lots of stuff.

Zack Hartle: 15:04

So after all this, these experiences in the field, you found yourself landed into an electrical trades instructor teaching in the apprenticeship program. How did that transition go? And why did you make the switch?

Jason Cox: 15:20

Well, if I go back to that time when I was like blindly entering into Mount Royal, and they said, What do you want to do for a career, I was like, I don't know. I thought I want to be a politician. I would like to be a lawyer, or maybe a teacher. So I started a degree in Canadian history, but way back then, right. So then I kind of threw all that away, and did the apprenticeship. And like Chelsea said in the last episode, when I got to secondary training or technical training here in Calgary, technical training for me was great. I was invested in the program. I liked learning. And I enjoyed it, and I was successful. And so I, so school was a very positive experience for me. And I worked in a cohort with about, oh, five or six other apprentices. We did all of our apprenticeship together. So we we work together, we learn together, we taught each other stuff. And then also, over the apprenticeship, I spent a lot of time learning from people from my, from my journeyman and from other apprentices. And then of course, I was starting to also teach other people. So I enjoy teaching people, I enjoyed seeing them be successful. I had a positive experience. When I went to sate for the electrical, I had a very positive experience when I went to Sage and Nate for the communication apprenticeship. And I was very fortunate that at the time, my teaching opportunity became available in Calgary. There was already a handful of people that I'd worked with in the trade that we're now teaching electrical apprenticeship. So and they they continually through the years encouraged me to come and try and become an apprenticeship instructor. And so I just, I, the opportunity was there. And ironically, two of my former apprentices had also applied for the same position. That year, we hired 10 Plus instructors. So, so I was actually hired with two of my former apprentices. And that was 15 years ago. So I've been teaching for 15 years. And, and you know what, it's lots of fun. So in the trades, there was a lot of hard work, and some fun days, but with my teaching job now, it's we try and have fun every day.

Zack Hartle: 18:02

That's very cool that you've been, like, you know, in that role now for 15 years, seeing as things have changed over the years, I mean, COVID aside the last 18 months aside, I'm sure there's been a ton of change in that education field for apprenticeships, what have you seen changed? For apprentices coming to school? What's the experience like for them? How's it different? Now from 10 years ago,

Jason Cox: 18:28

I probably look at it more from the perspective of how is it different now than when I was an apprentice, because you kind of remember that stuff versus 10 years ago today. But So back when I was an apprentice, we didn't have the ILM. So basically, it was some note packs pre manufactured by the instructors, and in textbooks. And so now now today, the ILM frameworks in place, which what are the ILM? So I believe those are called independent learning modules. And so for each year of the apprenticeship, there's different subjects as you know, and like code would have a, a module on section 10 for grounding and bonding. So back in the day, we probably wrote more notes. But now today, the students have those reads those paper resources in front of them. We also back in the day to have very limited or archaic computer systems to do online quizzes. That of course, is changed over the last month since I started in the trade. And now of course, students can now do their online quizzes and some of their online assignments on their phones. So So the big thing that's changed since I started working in the education field and where we are today is of course technology. When I first started, if you could get color overheads for your Last night, you were like, you were giving the primo presentation. Whereas now, I mean, everything's done. I mean, now we have the internet and on. That's another thing too, when I did my apprenticeship, we did not have the internet. So now as an instructor with the internet, you can there's so many resources online, to help you supplement your information and to help the students. So yeah, so technology has changed so much. And then obviously now, using products like zoom and Microsoft Office, we're able to still present the course material to the students virtually,

Zack Hartle: 20:40

yes, and there's definitely been no quicker pace of change and technology than what we've actually seen in the last 20 months since the start of the pandemic. So to hear about everything going online, and what students are going through now, I think is a it's such a cool tool and a learning experience for the students as well to learn in a different environment and learn some extra zoom and Microsoft Office, right, it's just another skill set that those students can even add to their bag of tricks that they have right when they're out in the workforce looking.

Unknown: 21:12

What I want to know is you you came

Zack Hartle: 21:14

in and became an instructor you've been there 15 years you sound passionate about it, you sound like you like it, how have you kept that passion going? And what makes it? What makes it the right job for you? And what have you done to keep up your teaching skills over the years?

Jason Cox: 21:30

Well, I'm having fun. So that's, that's a big thing, too, right? We've all been in positions where we've had jobs that we didn't like our jobs, right? So. So until somebody pays me to be a recreational golfer, right, I mean, I I'm having fun teaching now. I'm very fortunate to because I've worked with a lot of really good people. And I have a few, a few colleagues that that kind of were at the front of the line, and were ahead of me and paving, paving some new directions. And so teaching at the very beginning, I mean, you're just trying to survive and and, and be successful for your students. So you're, you're you're pulling out your hair freaking out thinking that you have to know everything, right? When, when really a lot of education and learning happens collaboratively with everyone. So you don't. When I first started out, I probably thought I needed to know all the answers. But I mean, now I realized that it's there's it's okay to learn with with your class and learn together. I mean, obviously, you should have an understanding of what you're doing, right. But over the years, I I also wanted to make sure that I was not just an electrician that was that was teaching ILM because I wanted to actually improve my own skill set. So I enrolled in a provincial instructor diploma program, through Vancouver Community College, and kind of learn some of the foundations about teaching. And it was very helpful for us to build material that was valid, right? So everyone's told stories in their life about that multiple choice exam where all the answers were seized, and you change one answer because you thought this can't be right. So so I did the the provincial instructor diploma to make sure that what I was doing was valid, I wanted to make sure I was doing the right job. So I did that. And it was very beneficial. I really enjoyed it was very fortunate that all my courses in that program were in person, I realized that that's changed a little bit now. And now it's a lot more online as everything's online. And then a few years later, my colleagues started master's programs and at the time, I just giggled, I thought there's no way I'd ever look at doing a master's degree. And, and so I watched a few colleagues go through and do that. And it was nice, because I saw people that I'd worked with for years and, and I gave me the confidence that if they could do a master's degree, I could so so I did, within the last five years complete a master's degree in adult education. And that was really good for me because one of the things I've discovered through my experience over the last 25 years is how society looks at trades people and how society looks at people with degrees. So now I'm a trades person with a degree so and, and I think that that's been pretty beneficial for myself, and I'm hoping that it's been beneficial for my students.

Zack Hartle: 24:54

Yeah, and hopefully that's something that the industry as a whole can address is that you know, stay Come on towards tradespeople, right. I mean, I think everyone in the trade can think back to a time in your in your work clothes and you get on an elevator and a building downtown. And I don't know there's just that almost stigma associated with it. So I think trying to drive the industry away from that is obviously beneficial for everyone involved.

Jason Cox: 25:19

Yeah, and that stigma exists and I'm guilty of it as well. Where I went to high school we had a it was called trades and services back in the day. vocational learning where you could have learned about woodworking, automotives welding. And I mean, like I said, I was I was brought up in a society where we were expected to go to university. So we just scoff at the students that would go down to the automotive wing and work on cars and come back to social studies with their fingers all covered in oil, frickin Neanderthal or whatever, right? And I mean, we're just young kids stupid. We didn't know what was going on. So it was interesting. I was thinking about that this morning. That was the first time I was like, I was guilty of the stigma. And when I decided to do an apprenticeship, I didn't look at myself as a university dropout. Like I, I had made a decision that I was going to leave university and I needed to obviously needed to take care of myself. And so when I entered the trades, I did run into the stigma that you're talking about when I I worked in, in buildings where you were a second class citizen, because you had drywall dust or, or something on you, right? I mean, there was times where we're occupants of buildings looked at you as like a tool, they throw in a broom closet. And then there was other people that you work with, too, that were just delighted that you were there to help them so. So kind of turning that all around. It was very interesting. i The stigma, stigma is huge. And I was guilty of thinking about thinking down about people back when I was in high school that were taking automotives. And I mean, they were the ones that can change the oil in their car. And I mean, they're the ones now that laugh at everyone that spends 150 bucks to get their oil changes in their car. But then, when I got into the trade, yet, the rate the tables were turned in now I was the the Neanderthal trades person, right? And then I was and it was one of those things where it's like, oh, well, you're a university dropout. And it always kind of bothered me, and and so for my own self gratification, I was very happy. And I'm very proud that I was able to, to get a university degree. And I mean, it's a master's degree. And it was, it was two years of hell. But I'm very proud that I got it. And in that program, one of the questions you asked is, like, what are you doing for your students? Well, the program I was in was a research based course. And the final project I had in the program, it was a final term paper that I worked on for months. It's kind of like a capstone project if people are familiar with that term, but it was a it wasn't a paper that was publishable. I just chose not to publish but and so the term for my paper was what are the barriers impeding academic success for our electrical apprentices. And so I did a huge research project on that, and the project narrows in on electricians or in the electrical apprentices. Because of the scope of the project, they were concerned that our apprentices in general was too vast, and I need needed to narrow it out. However, when I look at the barriers to academic success, stigmas on their lack of mentoring, funding, numeracy and literacy, so problems with reading and writing, and problems with math, problems with job security, problems with time management, and then the other huge one is learning disabilities. So learning disabilities are obviously throughout all of society. But the numbers of students with learning disabilities in the trades is massive. So going through and doing all that research, validated a lot of the problems I'd run into as an instructor, and it gave me more information about why my students weren't succeeding. So my concern for students is I want them to succeed. I want them to be successful, and I want them to be satisfied. And a lot of times I have to tell them, Look, I want you to be satisfied. Realize that I don't make the curriculum, right. However, I want you to be satisfied that we were able to get through the curriculum together.

Zack Hartle: 29:45

Now that's very interesting. And I think, I mean, obviously that programs given you a broader view on adult education and then to be able to do that Capstone and narrow in very specifically to your day to day job. office. I don't know, such a cool learning experience. And I, you're obviously a lifelong learner as I am myself. And I think just keeping that going is how you can still keep progressing in the trade right even after 15 years in the same job, right? So

Jason Cox: 30:17

yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's, it's lifelong learning is not a catchphrase. It's a reality.

Zack Hartle: 30:24

Jason that now brings us to the podcast. It's your most recent endeavor. We started this we this is episode six. So 12 weeks ago ish. Now. Why are you here? Why are we making this podcast together?

Jason Cox: 30:41

Well, Zack, why don't you tell me why I am here.

Zack Hartle: 30:45

I think you're doing the podcast because I convinced you to do the podcast, because I knew that you would like it. And Was I right? Or was I wrong?

Jason Cox: 30:54

I'm actually really enjoying it. And unfortunately, I figured out my career path when I turned about 40, which was a little while ago. And at that point in time of my life, I've always been interested in broadcasting. And I wasn't about to drop my career and start this mission of starting in broadcasting. So. So that was part of the reason I did it. And I'm really having lots of fun. And I'm learning lots of stuff, actually, from you. And yeah, it's been lots of fun. I've, of course, I've got other bigger answers on why I want to do the podcast if you want to know about that, too. Yeah, I

Zack Hartle: 31:31

think that I mean, you're doing it because I pulled your teeth to get you to agree to do three pilot episodes. And I mean, It's tons of fun. So yeah, why why are we keeping going with the podcast?

Jason Cox: 31:47

Yeah, it was really funny when I when I think when we had our conversation, and I said I'll do three. And then we'll, we'll re convene and talk about it. And we didn't even I think the third episode that we did was like we were comfortable with what we were doing by that. The reason another reason, I mean, obviously, I want to have fun, what you said earlier, like, this is fun. But what you said earlier is totally true. It's all about lifelong learning. And so we have the opportunity to learn a lot about our trade in this podcast. And we have the opportunity to help others in our trade, learn more about our trade. And so that's exciting. And I've learned a lot so far.

Zack Hartle: 32:35

What's the most interesting thing that you've learned so far?

Jason Cox: 32:41

The most interesting thing I've learned so far. Well, two things. First of all, when John Knoll talked to us about the symptoms from receiving a, an electrical shock, there were symptoms there. And results, injuries that I was not aware of. And so that has been probably the most important thing I've learned through our podcast is that we should 100% Minimize electrical shock. I also through through my experience of going into graduate school and reading academic papers, I did read some on the effects of shock from John and then I found some online and, and yeah, we definitely need to be careful, we need to be wearing the proper PPE and then following this the right rule. So so that was really important so far, and been very happy. So far, we've had two, two guests that I've known for a very long time in the industry. And they were both they're both on our show. And I was just so impressed by their professionalism, so, so learning about shocking and seeing the professionalism of people I've worked with, from the beginning of their career to present day has been very satisfying.

Zack Hartle: 34:13

I couldn't agree more that we've learned cool stuff from all of our guests. I mean, the episode with John Knoll that you're talking about is episode number three, definitely worth checking out if you haven't listened yet. And then, I guess, where do you see us going? Where do you want to take this podcast and what do you want to get out of it?

Jason Cox: 34:32

Well, I'm very impressed with the feedback we're getting from people. I think we're very hard on her. Everyone's very hard on themselves. And, and so to get the positive feedback from people has been recharging. It's really it's really helped. I would really like to have members or listeners contact us and say hey, why don't you do an episode? On this or why haven't you done an episode on that? So suggestions for topics? or special guests? Yeah, like so. So that's what I'd like to see moving forward. I mean, as we've started here, Zach, I mean, we've kind of just mined through some of the people that we know. And some of it has, has led to other other guests. But yeah, so So yeah, more. More, more feedback from listeners would be great.

Zack Hartle: 35:32

Yeah, engaging with the electrical community, I agree would be excellent. And obviously, for everyone listening, you can reach out to us on Facebook, at Watt's the Word podcast, join our page there, like our page, you can send us a message reach out to us if you have any suggestions, like Jason says, we would love to hear from you. Other than that, Jason, I mean, I just wanted to chat with you today about that, like you're gonna do with me one day, um, anything else you'd like to add? Or if not, then where can people reach out to you if they want to chat with you some more.

Jason Cox: 36:10

They can find me on LinkedIn. It's pretty easy. Just Jason Cox, LinkedIn. I mean, Calgary electrician, I think is my title. I think you can find me through there as you know, Zack Zack smiling here because when it comes to the technical and the Instagram and the Twitter and the Facebook, all the social media, all the tech stuff, Zach is our he's our expert on that. And I'm sure if you've listened to a few of our episodes, it's very obvious.

Zack Hartle: 36:37

Thank you everybody for coming and listening today. I had had a great time chatting with you, Jason. And even though we've been you know, friends for years and talking together for 12 weeks now on the show, I even learned quite a bit from you tonight more system about how you got to where you are. We never really discussed your apprenticeship or anything up until we met. So it's great to hear that. Everyone who's listening. Please make sure you subscribe to the show. So you get your automatic downloads every second Monday when they come out. Like I mentioned, reach out to us on Facebook or Instagram at Watt's the Word podcast. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you. We'd love to have you subscribe, share it with a friend who you think might be interesting. And keep yourself safe out there. And if you can someone else too.